Orioles Searching Outside Organization for Backup C (per Roch)

[Frobby]

He's one of the best catchers in the game right now, but I don't think the last 2-3 years (at minimum) of that contract are going to look very good. Lots of warning signs to consider (e.g., injury issues, lots of mileage). This article sums up a lot of my concerns (and it managed to add a few that hadn't occurred to me).

The Yankees made a huge mistake in not re-signing Russell Martin and then "fixed" that mistake by overpaying Brian McCann. They may not regret this move in the next couple of years, but they'll pay for it later.

[Dipper9]

Why would acquiring a decent back up catcher bother you? A big weakness the last few years.

Because Clevenger "looks like" that decent backup catcher. And the fact that we are looking tells me that Buck wants another Teagarden type, all defense no offense backup. I don't care how good they are defensively, watching another .100 hitting backup catcher will, as I said, bother me.

[Can_of_corn]

You don't like McCann? I thought it was one of the better deals of the whole offseason. But, I'm also sold on the value of framing.

I'm am partially sold on the value, I am not sold at all on the current crop of guys evaluating it.

[Can_of_corn]

The Yankees made a huge mistake in not re-signing Russell Martin and then "fixed" that mistake by overpaying Brian McCann. They may not regret this move in the next couple of years, but they'll pay for it later.

At the time they were trying to get under the cap and that clouded their thinking.

[TheBee]

Miguel Olivo Requests Release From Dodgers

By Jeff Todd [March 16, 2014 at 8:56am CST]

Veteran catcher Miguel Olivo has asked the Dodgers to release him after learning he would not be part of the club's trip to Australia to open the season, reports MLB.com's Tyler Emerick. The report indicates that Olivo has not yet been released, but hopes to pursue a MLB job elsewhere if he is.

The 36-year-old said he would not report to minor league camp and accept a MiLB assignment, as the team has requested. He has been battling with Drew Butera to be the team's third catcher to open the year, behind A.J. Ellis and Tim Federowicz, as the club will get to bring five additional players to Australia. Olivo, who has reportedly has had a solid spring thus far, is at a disadvantage in that Butera would have to pass through waivers to be stashed in the minors.

It is not yet clear whether the Dodgers will grant the backstop's request. Olivo, who is not a Rule XX(B) free agent, apparently does not have an opt-out date until June. He went through a controversial end to his time with the Marlins last year, when he asked to be released due to lack of playing time.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/miguel-olivo-requests-release-from-dodgers.html

Career 34 percent caught stealing rate...will he garner interest from O's?

[Rene88]

Absinthe!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheBee]

That's just one factor on defense. If Olivo is considered good overall defensively then, yes, the O's will be interested.

True. It is just a number that jumped out at me after 12 seasons. We know

Matt has a gun, and he is at 33 percent. Lots of variables involved, obviously, I was just throwing the information out there. I don't know Olivo that well. I have seen him, but haven't watched closely. I was hoping others would fill me in...hence the question mark at the end of my statement.

[Dark Helmet]

All this trouble trying to find a backup C. Glad we dont have to worry about replacing Wieters anytime soon

[RVAbird]

Miguel Olivo Requests Release From Dodgers

By Jeff Todd [March 16, 2014 at 8:56am CST]

Veteran catcher Miguel Olivo has asked the Dodgers to release him after learning he would not be part of the club's trip to Australia to open the season, reports MLB.com's Tyler Emerick. The report indicates that Olivo has not yet been released, but hopes to pursue a MLB job elsewhere if he is.

The 36-year-old said he would not report to minor league camp and accept a MiLB assignment, as the team has requested. He has been battling with Drew Butera to be the team's third catcher to open the year, behind A.J. Ellis and Tim Federowicz, as the club will get to bring five additional players to Australia. Olivo, who has reportedly has had a solid spring thus far, is at a disadvantage in that Butera would have to pass through waivers to be stashed in the minors.

It is not yet clear whether the Dodgers will grant the backstop's request. Olivo, who is not a Rule XX(B) free agent, apparently does not have an opt-out date until June. He went through a controversial end to his time with the Marlins last year, when he asked to be released due to lack of playing time.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/miguel-olivo-requests-release-from-dodgers.html

Career 34 percent caught stealing rate...will he garner interest from O's?

Not really interested in a .250 OBP that comes with complaints about playing time.

[RVAbird]

Teagarden's was .180. I'll take a poor OBP with some power and defense at this point. I prefer to just stick with Clevenger.

I agree.

[Stotle]

I'm am partially sold on the value, I am not sold at all on the current crop of guys evaluating it.

I assume you mean you disagree with the articles you've read on it, and not that you have specific gripes with the front offices that have assigned values in this area.

[Can_of_corn]

I assume you mean you disagree with the articles you've read on it, and not that you have specific gripes with the front offices that have assigned values in this area.

What I mean is that on one hand I can see that when Molina was catching for the Rays the Staff's walks went down and strike outs went up.

However I also saw that in at least one of the season's the OPS surrendered by the pitching staff was higher for him then his backup.

I find it hard to assign a lot of weight to the former when the latter is staring me in the face.

I know there should be value in it, I just have not found a process for quantifying it that suits me.

[Stotle]

What I mean is that on one hand I can see that when Molina was catching for the Rays the Staff's walks went down and strike outs went up.

However I also saw that in at least one of the season's the OPS surrendered by the pitching staff was higher for him then his backup.

I find it hard to assign a lot of weight to the former when the latter is staring me in the face.

I know there should be value in it, I just have not found a process for quantifying it that suits me.

What would framing have to do with OPS? Or catching at all? Unless the claim is that the pitches being called are leading to more hits? Is one season's worth of comparative data from a backup catcher anywhere near enough of a sample size to assign any weight at all?

[Can_of_corn]

What would framing have to do with OPS? Or catching at all? Unless the claim is that the pitches being called are leading to more hits? Is one season's worth of comparative data from a backup catcher anywhere near enough of a sample size to assign any weight at all?

I most certainly do understand the sample size I am dealing with, even if Molina was more of a platoon player then a starter/backup.

Less balls and more strikes should lead to less baserunners which should lead, all other things being equal, to a lower OPS allowed. If another aspect of the Catcher (pitch selection) counteracts the benefit of his framing then that should be acknowledged.

As I said, I am sure that framing does have an effect.

I think the effect is grossly overstated in the recent studies that I have seen.

I think the original work by Mike Fast is more accurate.

I need to see a lot more data, from a variety of sources, before I am willing to accept that the metric is at a useful stage.

[Stotle]

I most certainly do understand the sample size I am dealing with, even if Molina was more of a platoon player then a starter/backup.

Less balls and more strikes should lead to less baserunners which should lead, all other things being equal, to a lower OPS allowed. If another aspect of the Catcher (pitch selection) counteracts the benefit of his framing then that should be acknowledged.

As I said, I am sure that framing does have an effect.

I think the effect is grossly overstated in the recent studies that I have seen.

I think the original work by Mike Fast is more accurate.

I need to see a lot more data, from a variety of sources, before I am willing to accept that the metric is at a useful stage.

You obviously make fair points. I think one year of data in an otherwise fairly consistent set isn't as huge a deal as you make it out to be, particularly when other factors can obviously affect OPS outside of strikes and balls.

Teams are at varying stages of assigning value to sequencing and putting it all into the catcher's defensive models (my understanding; I don't have inside info on the specific progress). It's not there yet, but folks should be pretty confident as to who the best and worst are at framing, and that it is an important part of a catcher's value. Common sense gets you there without the numbers, but we know hitters do better ahead in the count, and worse when behind. We know hitters do better with balls in the middle of the plate than if they are forced to protect a larger plate. Etc.

I understand not fully buying into the studies you are reading, but my own opinion is that you are too quickly dismissing the data. I would assume you don't throw out defensive metrics because of one year inconsistencies, or the fact that neighboring defenders impact the production of each other. Then again, I'm probably overselling.