Question about approach and process.

[Outlander]

Ok, so forgive me in advance if this topic has been beat to death before my time. My question is about team approach, and it's correlation to coaching vs players. The Red Sox series was a perfect example of two different approaches. My question comes from a perception of mine. These teams with high obp, I.e., the Red Sox, have at bats like they get it. It's as if they know, and buy into the fact that obp is king. Now we can't just assume players think this way because we have seen in different tv programs that the players are the last to embrace the analytical movement.( outside of maybe hof, MVP voters) Sure, some players acknowledge you should wait for you pitch, but they don't always encompass the full value of walking/ taking pitches. So do the Red Sox just happen to get guys who can hit 240, but obp 350, or do they sell this message? It just seems like the os hitters all are the same. And this coincides with what we have heard from Jim Presley. Be aggressive, look to swing the bat. I know it is thought that coaching doesn't have a great affect on performance, but when I see a team that looks like they all " get it", against a team full of very talented guys who don't, it makes me wonder.

[Can_of_corn]

You can't teach it to an appreciable degree at the major league level.

The Red Sox draft it, they teach it in the minors and they pay for it on the free agent market.

[Outlander]

So it is safe to say that our core is very much overrated? And since we have so many guys who do the same thing, we shouldn't be too concerned with them breaking up? Or can a team wide approach hinder the progress of a manny machado, or a schoop?

[Can_of_corn]

So it is safe to say that our core is very much overrated. And since we have so many guys who do the same thing, we shouldn't be too concerned with them breaking up. Or can a team wide approach hinder the progress of a manny machado, or a schoop?

Overrated by whom?

The folks on the Sun Boards?

The guys that vote for gold gloves?

OBP is expensive. Look at how much Choo got and OBP is his only standout skill.

[Outlander]

Overrated by the general public. I've heard many suggest we have one of the best cores in baseball. And we're Gomes and Napoli expensive? I recall those being under the radar moves, but those are huge moves.

[Il BuonO]

You can't teach it to an appreciable degree at the major league level.

The Red Sox draft it, they teach it in the minors and they pay for it on the free agent market.

Yeah, I'll disagree. OBP isn't a skill you scout for when looking for talent. Davis is a good example of a guy who had questionable plate discipline and made an adjustment.

In the sense that it isn't speed or power or one of the scouted tools it's easier in that respect. I agree that most guys are who they are by Davis' or Jones' age though, but it's through lack of effort or thought. It's not a physical skill they're lacking in the box.

[Can_of_corn]

Yeah, I'll disagree. OBP isn't a skill you scout for when looking for talent. Davis is a good example of a guy who had questionable plate discipline and made an adjustment.

In the sense that it isn't speed or power or one of the scored tools it's easier in that respect. I agree that most guys are who they are by Davis' or Jones' age though, but it's through lack of effort or thought. It's not a physical skill they're lacking in the box.

You look for approach, you look for pitch recognition, you look at BB/K rates.

[Outlander]

So is it foolish to think that preaching an approach of aggressiveness, vs an approach(almost a mandate) like the Astros, could have any affect (effect?) on a team?

[Il BuonO]

You look for approach, you look for pitch recognition, you look at BB/K rates.

When scouting, no you look to see if they can hit and hit for power. Developing plate discipline can be learned and players usually get better as they gain experience.

I may be in the minority in this, but it doesn't help that our manager just came out and said as a philosophy "you hit until you take." I was taught that you don't just swing at strikes but swing at pitches that I could drive as a hitter. Pitches that were in my personal "zone" until there was two strikes. That makes for very few pitches in a small area.

Making pitchers throw strikes isn't just about getting ahead but controlling at bats. Too many guys look to hit first instead of waiting to jump on the right pitch or not jumping at all. There is a small number of pitchers who can command a strike effectively and hitters should be made aware of that instead of having an aggressive attitude that will make then prone to making poor choices.

Most guys at this level have no problem with being aggressive, it's slowing the game down that is difficult.

[Il BuonO]

So is it foolish to think that preaching an approach of aggressiveness, vs an approach(almost a mandate) like the Astros, could have any affect (effect?) on a team?

Not at all.

[Ripken]

DD says he wants to improve team OBP. His actions don't follow his words. The manager and hitting coach say things about being "aggressive" and such. I cringe every time I hear that. What they're doing very likely isn't going to achieve the level of success we all want.

[weams]

Did the Red Sox win today? We will win. And will win because of our process and approach. Aggressively.

[Can_of_corn]

Yeah, I'll disagree. OBP isn't a skill you scout for when looking for talent. Davis is a good example of a guy who had questionable plate discipline and made an adjustment.

In the sense that it isn't speed or power or one of the scouted tools it's easier in that respect. I agree that most guys are who they are by Davis' or Jones' age though, but it's through lack of effort or thought. It's not a physical skill they're lacking in the box.

So guys like Adam Dunn, Jack Cust, and Mark Reynolds out work and out think guys like Jones and Hardy?

[El Gordo]

You're not going to improve Hardy, Jones, Davis, Markakis, Wieters, Cruz, or Young in terms of plate discipline . They are what they are. Schoop and Manny maybe.

[oriole]

Yeah, I'll disagree. OBP isn't a skill you scout for when looking for talent. Davis is a good example of a guy who had questionable plate discipline and made an adjustment.

In the sense that it isn't speed or power or one of the scouted tools it's easier in that respect. I agree that most guys are who they are by Davis' or Jones' age though, but it's through lack of effort or thought. It's not a physical skill they're lacking in the box.

Regarding a guy like Davis I think it's worth noting that he probably got far less pitches in the zone once word got around that he can hit with the best.