Insights on the Norris trade from the Astros hacking articles

[Frobby]

Looks like it went like this:

- Astros asked for Gausman or Bundy

- Duquette said no to Gausman, would need to get back to them on Bundy

- Duquette later said probably no Bundy, but would they do deal without him?

- Astros said probably not, but might consider Norris + for Bundy.

- Duquette later proposed Wright and Strop for Norris

- Finally ended up with Hoes, Hader and pick for Norris

The things that stand out to me:

1. Duquette was inclined to protect Gausman over Bundy.

2. Bundy wasn't immediately rejected out of hand in a Norris deal.

3. The deal Duquette offered (Wright and Strop) arguably is better than the deal the Astros got.

Interesting stuff. It should be noted that Bundy was injured when these discussions were occurring.

[sportsfan8703]

Let's us know how far apart deals start at. We should value Gausman more. Hader and the comp pick was and still is the better package. I want to see what macphail was asking for bedard from teams.

[waroriole]

Let's us know how far apart deals start at. We should value Gausman more. Hader and the comp pick was and still is the better package. I want to see what macphail was asking for bedard from teams.

How is Hader the better package? Hoes isn't a ML. Hader is very unlikely to be one and the comp pick is speculative.

Wright is a ML, either as a SP or RP. Strop showed he can be a valuable piece out of the pen with a change of scenery.

[Austin]

Man, imagine the uproar if we had traded Bundy for Norris.

[sportsfan8703]

How is Hader the better package? Hoes isn't a ML. Hader is very unlikely to be one and the comp pick is speculative.

Wright is a ML, either as a SP or RP. Strop showed he can be a valuable piece out of the pen with a change of scenery.

Here we go. Bring it on old guard.

1. They've shown the ability to draft well consistently. That pick wasn't all about the player taken but the money that it added to the overall draft pool. Heck I don't even know who they chose. So getting the comp pick was ideal for them.

2. Hader has a higher ceiling than Wright. As much as I like Mike Wright, he can't always pitch on 11 days rest. He's likely a 4/5 starter or a set up guy. Hader is likely to reach the majors a full 3-4 years younger in age before Wright did. Even if they end up as equal value, I'll always take the lefty.

3. At the time of the trade Strop had little value. He was about to be DFA'd. Being as the Astros were first in line on the DFA list they could have just claimed him. He had 0 options. Was failing in the AL. For a team that didn't expect to compete to 2016, Strop would only have had 1 year of worth to them. And be expensive on top of that. He's making 2.3 million this year. Probably 4 million in 2016 and 6 million in 2017.

4. Hoes. While he hasn't worked out for them, he was still one of our top position players. Plus he's always had good AAA numbers and still 25 with 6 years of control. His career .612 OPS isn't terrible for a 5th OF'er that can play CF. I don't know about you but I'd love to have a 25 year old OF in AAA right now with a .419 OBP.

I think I'm going to have to agree with their GM on said trade packages.

[El Gordo]

Looks like it went like this:

- Astros asked for Gausman or Bundy

- Duquette said no to Gausman, would need to get back to them on Bundy

- Duquette later said probably no Bundy, but would they do deal without him?

- Astros said probably not, but might consider Norris + for Bundy.

- Duquette later proposed Wright and Strop for Norris

- Finally ended up with Hoes, Hader and pick for Norris

The things that stand out to me:

1. Duquette was inclined to protect Gausman over Bundy.

2. Bundy wasn't immediately rejected out of hand in a Norris deal.

3. The deal Duquette offered (Wright and Strop) arguably is better than the deal the Astros got.

Interesting stuff. It should be noted that Bundy was injured when these discussions were occurring.

Apparently he still is. :cussing:

[Frobby]

Here we go. Bring it on old guard.

1. They've shown the ability to draft well consistently. That pick wasn't all about the player taken but the money that it added to the overall draft pool. Heck I don't even know who they chose. So getting the comp pick was ideal for them.

2. Hader has a higher ceiling than Wright. As much as I like Mike Wright, he can't always pitch on 11 days rest. He's likely a 4/5 starter or a set up guy. Hader is likely to reach the majors a full 3-4 years younger in age before Wright did. Even if they end up as equal value, I'll always take the lefty.

3. At the time of the trade Strop had little value. He was about to be DFA'd. Being as the Astros were first in line on the DFA list they could have just claimed him. He had 0 options. Was failing in the AL. For a team that didn't expect to compete to 2016, Strop would only have had 1 year of worth to them. And be expensive on top of that. He's making 2.3 million this year. Probably 4 million in 2016 and 6 million in 2017.

4. Hoes. While he hasn't worked out for them, he was still one of our top position players. Plus he's always had good AAA numbers and still 25 with 6 years of control. His career .612 OPS isn't terrible for a 5th OF'er that can play CF. I don't know about you but I'd love to have a 25 year old OF in AAA right now with a .419 OBP.

I think I'm going to have to agree with their GM on said trade packages.

Here's another way to look at it: we gave up Arrieta and Strop for 3 months of Feldman. Certainly 2.3 years of Norris > .5 years of Feldman, right?

[sportsfan8703]

Here's another way to look at it: we gave up Arrieta and Strop for 3 months of Feldman. Certainly 2.3 years of Norris > .5 years of Feldman, right?

I thought we were talking about the Norris trade though? Old guard to the rescue. I gotta just start calling you guys out.

[Stotle]

How is Hader the better package? Hoes isn't a ML. Hader is very unlikely to be one and the comp pick is speculative.

Wright is a ML, either as a SP or RP. Strop showed he can be a valuable piece out of the pen with a change of scenery.

Hader is a 21 year old striking out 8 per nine in Double-A while maintaining a 1.25 WHIP. How is he unlikely to be a major leaguer?

In Double-A Mike Wright was a 23 year old striking out 8.5 per nine with a 1.3 WHIP.

Can't just scout the stat line, but can't ignore it either. Hader is getting it done.

[weams]

Hader is a 21 year old striking out 8 per nine in Double-A while maintaining a 1.25 WHIP. How is he unlikely to be a major leaguer?

In Double-A Mike Wright was a 23 year old striking out 8.5 per nine with a 1.3 WHIP.

Can't just scout the stat line, but can't ignore it either. Hader is getting it done.

Mike Wright is a major league pitcher. We will see if little Josh Hader ever is.

[ArtVanDelay]

Here's the guy the Astros took with the pick they received in the trade:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=fisher001der

Looks like he can really hit. He had 3 home runs (2 grand slams) and 12 RBI in his A+ debut a few weeks ago!

http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/05/31/houston-astros-derek-fisher-prospect-debut-three-home-runs

[Frobby]

I thought we were talking about the Norris trade though? Old guard to the rescue. I gotta just start calling you guys out.

I don't understand what "old guard" means here. I mean, as it happens, I am relatively old compared to many posters, but what has that got to do with anything?

[waroriole]

Hader is a 21 year old striking out 8 per nine in Double-A while maintaining a 1.25 WHIP. How is he unlikely to be a major leaguer?

In Double-A Mike Wright was a 23 year old striking out 8.5 per nine with a 1.3 WHIP.

Can't just scout the stat line, but can't ignore it either. Hader is getting it done.

He's had control issues at every stop and FIP's above 4 since the initial hot start with the lowest levels of the O's farm system. From what I understand, the scouts have never been very high on him either.

Maybe very unlikely to make the ML is too much, but I don't see a lengthy stay in ML.

Also, I see he's not exclusively starting anymore. Has HOU given up on him as a SP?

[waroriole]

Here we go. Bring it on old guard.

1. They've shown the ability to draft well consistently. That pick wasn't all about the player taken but the money that it added to the overall draft pool. Heck I don't even know who they chose. So getting the comp pick was ideal for them.

2. Hader has a higher ceiling than Wright. As much as I like Mike Wright, he can't always pitch on 11 days rest. He's likely a 4/5 starter or a set up guy. Hader is likely to reach the majors a full 3-4 years younger in age before Wright did. Even if they end up as equal value, I'll always take the lefty.

3. At the time of the trade Strop had little value. He was about to be DFA'd. Being as the Astros were first in line on the DFA list they could have just claimed him. He had 0 options. Was failing in the AL. For a team that didn't expect to compete to 2016, Strop would only have had 1 year of worth to them. And be expensive on top of that. He's making 2.3 million this year. Probably 4 million in 2016 and 6 million in 2017.

4. Hoes. While he hasn't worked out for them, he was still one of our top position players. Plus he's always had good AAA numbers and still 25 with 6 years of control. His career .612 OPS isn't terrible for a 5th OF'er that can play CF. I don't know about you but I'd love to have a 25 year old OF in AAA right now with a .419 OBP.

I think I'm going to have to agree with their GM on said trade packages.

1. How are you arguing in favor of the pick when you don't even know who they chose? They bombed on last year's draft, by running out of money, even with that extra pick.

2. Based on what? How likely is he to hit that ceiling with the extensive control problems he's had? I'll take the guy who's a sure ML, with a chance to be a cheap, back end SP.

3. You said you'd take it in hindsight too. He was phenomenal last year and has a decent chance to provide more value than anyone HOU got ever will.

4. I'm sure they'd give him up for very little.

[Stotle]

He's had control issues at every stop and FIP's above 4 since the initial hot start with the lowest levels of the O's farm system. From what I understand, the scouts have never been very high on him either.

Maybe very unlikely to make the ML is too much, but I don't see a lengthy stay in ML.

Also, I see he's not exclusively starting anymore. Has HOU given up on him as a SP?

Houston piggybacks in lower levels and with younger pitchers. So alternating starts and relief appearances.