O's Have Contacted Upton

[25 Nuggets]

I'll care, yes. I don't want Gallardo at all. I think that best case he's the new Jeremy Guthrie, a low K guy who gets by with a decent defense as a mid-to-back-end starter but might cough up a 5.50 ERA at any moment.

There aren't many pitchers left that you can say are better than what we have in house, really. I think Latos is, if he's healthy. The Orioles' best move now is to concentrate on bolstering the offense and sign a depth starter for much less than Gallardo.

[DrungoHazewood]

There aren't many pitchers left that you can say are better than what we have in house, really. I think Latos is, if he's healthy. The Orioles' best move now is to concentrate on bolstering the offense and sign a depth starter for much less than Gallardo.

I'm good with Latos on a low-cost, short-term value-building deal. I'd rather go with some roll of the dice or even Wilson/Wright than Gallardo at his price.

[Herman]

I'll care, yes. I don't want Gallardo at all. I think that best case he's the new Jeremy Guthrie, a low K guy who gets by with a decent defense as a mid-to-back-end starter but might cough up a 5.50 ERA at any moment.

Why does it matter if he's a low K guy? According to the sabermetrics cult, strikeouts don't matter for hitters so why do they matter or pitchers?

[Number5]

Why does it matter if he's a low K guy? According to the sabermetrics cult, strikeouts don't matter for hitters so why do they matter or pitchers?

[Number5]

Why does it matter if he's a low K guy? According to the sabermetrics cult, strikeouts don't matter for hitters so why do they matter or pitchers?

[Yardball85]

Why does it matter if he's a low K guy? According to the sabermetrics cult, strikeouts don't matter for hitters so why do they matter or pitchers?

Briefly, the fewer times a ball is put in play, the fewer chances the other team has to reach on a base hit or an error. A strike out is a sure out - a line drive, ground ball, or fly ball is an out, a hit, or an error. So strikeouts are important.

[DrungoHazewood]

Why does it matter if he's a low K guy? According to the sabermetrics cult, strikeouts don't matter for hitters so why do they matter or pitchers?

Do you want a snarky answer, a defensive answer, a sad-that-people-really-don't-know-the-basics answer, or a real answer with the details? I'd assume you've been exposed to "Why pitchers are successful 101" about 1000 times since you post here quite a lot, but maybe you really do just tune out those posts and are asking a serious question.

[Herman]

Briefly, the fewer times a ball is put in play, the fewer chances the other team has to reach on a base hit or an error. A strike out is a sure out - a line drive, ground ball, or fly ball is an out, a hit, or an error. So strikeouts are important.

I know that. It was a sarcastic question to expose the double standard. I have been relatively vocal in my issues with strikeouts (the team has poor plate discipline, most notably Davis) only to be shot down by sabermetrics guys like Drungo who argue that a strikeout is the same as any other out. So I ask, if it isn't a big deal for a hitter then why is it a big deal for a pitcher?

Do you want a snarky answer, a defensive answer, a sad-that-people-really-don't-know-the-basics answer, or a real answer with the details? I'd assume you've been exposed to "Why pitchers are successful 101" about 1000 times since you post here quite a lot, but maybe you really do just tune out those posts and are asking a serious question.

LOL I understand just fine but the double standard is interesting. Strikeouts are important to pitchers but not important to hitters. Think about that...

and I don't post here often

[Can_of_corn]

I know that. It was a sarcastic question to expose the double standard. I have been relatively vocal in my issues with strikeouts (the team has poor plate discipline, most notably Davis) only to be shot down by sabermetrics guys like Drungo who argue that a strikeout is the same as any other out. So I ask, if it isn't a big deal for a hitter then why is it a big deal for a pitcher?

LOL I understand just fine but the double standard is interesting. Strikeouts are important to pitchers but not important to hitters. Think about that...

and I don't post here often

It makes perfect sense to me.

Then again I've actually read books and stuff.

[El Gordo]

I know that. It was a sarcastic question to expose the double standard. I have been relatively vocal in my issues with strikeouts (the team has poor plate discipline, most notably Davis) only to be shot down by sabermetrics guys like Drungo who argue that a strikeout is the same as any other out. So I ask, if it isn't a big deal for a hitter then why is it a big deal for a pitcher?

LOL I understand just fine but the double standard is interesting. Strikeouts are important to pitchers but not important to hitters. Think about that...

and I don't post here often

You obviously don't understand, because there is no double standard. A strike out for a pitcher is different than a strike out for a batter in value. Maybe if we called one a strike out and the other a whiff it would help you. :rolleyestf:

[DrungoHazewood]

It makes perfect sense to me.

Then again I've actually read books and stuff.

Strikeouts are positively correlated to power for hitters. But they reduce balls in play, and are outs 99.9% of the time for pitchers. That's why they always go up - there is no natural check on strikeouts since they are the manifestation of positive traits for both hitters and pitchers. But you actually have to think through that and internalize it. If you grew up knowing that Ks were always bad and strikeouts were for guys who couldn't hit you may not want to learn new things.

[Frobby]

I know that. It was a sarcastic question to expose the double standard. I have been relatively vocal in my issues with strikeouts (the team has poor plate discipline, most notably Davis) only to be shot down by sabermetrics guys like Drungo who argue that a strikeout is the same as any other out. So I ask, if it isn't a big deal for a hitter then why is it a big deal for a pitcher?

LOL I understand just fine but the double standard is interesting. Strikeouts are important to pitchers but not important to hitters. Think about that...

and I don't post here often

It has been demonstrated that pitchers have far less influence on the hitters' batting average on balls in play (BABIP) than the hitters do. Therefore, if you see a pitcher who had a decent ERA but very low strikeouts, there's a pretty good chance that he just had a lucky year and that in the future when his luck evens out his ERA will go up. But for hitters, some guys tend to have higher BABIPs than others on a consistent basis.

The other point is, we are talking about what strikeout rates might indicate about future success. Your complaint about strikeouts has been different, and is focused on whether it impacts an individual game. It is very clear that, in the aggregate, the impact of a strikeout vs. any other kind of out in a game is very minimal. It's rather easy to quantify, and that has been discussed many times on this board and elsewhere. You simply choose to ignore the facts. Nobody is saying high strikeouts for a hitter are a good thing, just that their impact is pretty small. You'd rather have Chris Davis and 200 strikeouts than some contact hitter who puts up a .700 OPS.

[Ori-Al]

ESPN's Jerry Crasnick's column today on Justin Upton:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14549212/no-end-sight-justin-upton-free-agent-adventure

[25 Nuggets]

ESPN's Jerry Crasnick's column today on Justin Upton:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14549212/no-end-sight-justin-upton-free-agent-adventure

The market is so bad for Upton that the friggin Red Sox are looking at him? With nowhere to put him?

Just make him an Oriole for goodness sake. Don't be "lukewarm about a six year commitment." He'll likely be productive for some time to come.

[JayThomas]

Go. Get. Justin.