O's Have Contacted Upton

[Ruzious]

Betting on a middle infielder to age well is like... (fill in humorous anecdote).

[Can_of_corn]

SS is hard position to fill and Hardy was the best FA on the market. I know he didn't have a great year but I still don't think it was an awful deal.

Expect for the part where the Orioles already had an all star caliber short stop on the roster.

[DrungoHazewood]

Roberts was less of a risk then Hardy but he was also more of an overpay considering what the free agent market was like the off-season after he extended.

Hardy had back issues the season before he signed the extension.

Middle infielders don't age well.

I bet I could find a list of 60 or 80 shortstops who were well worth a four-year, $11M extension at 30.

[CP0861]

I'm lost on how you can make an assumption that Cespedes played real well last year only because it was a contract year. It's not like Upton hasn't had questions about his character throughout his career. If you're going to give up a mid first round pick, you better be getting a much better player, and there's no way to conclude that Upton is much better than Cespedes. Cespedes had 85 extra base hits last year and had a 137 OPS+ vs Upton's 121. And he's probably a better corner OFer than Upton with a better arm and just as much speed. The 2 years in age is the only significant advantage the Upton has.

Where did I say Cespedes "played real well last year only because it was a contract year"? Was I wrong in saying he had a great contract year? I DID NOT say that was the only reason, but at the same time, I definitely don't feel warm and fuzzy about a 30 year old player whose best year also happened to be his contract year. He's had one year out of the past 3 in which he would be discussed as a $100M player. We wouldn't be having this discussion following his 2013 or 2014 seasons.

As far as the pick, when have the Orioles hit with a mid first round pick? Jayson Werth almost 20 years ago (if he even counts considering he's a one time all start who didn't blossom until he was 30...and with his 3rd franchise) or Moose almost 30 years ago? I understand it's nice to have 1st round picks...but outside of the top 10, I have no problems giving up that pick to sign a 28 y/o 3x AS with a .352 career obp and and an .825 OPS.

And I already know Cespedes had the better 2015, no need to pluck those stats....from that one year. How about 2013 and 2014?

And the 2 years in difference, to me, is significant when you're talking about a long term contract. I'd much rather lock up a guy in years 28-33 than 30-35.

[Can_of_corn]

I bet I could find a list of 60 or 80 shortstops who were well worth a four-year, $11M extension at 30.

60? Out of how many thousand?

The real kicker for me with Hardy is the per-existing back issue.

[Frobby]

60? Out of how many thousand?

The real kicker for me with Hardy is the per-existing back issue.

You won round 1, based on Hardy's 2015 performance and injury issues. Hopefully rounds 2 and 3 go better for Hardy and the Orioles.

As to the back issues, I considered them a concern, but Hardy only missed 21 games and was still worth 3.3 rWAR in 2014. I'm a lot more concerned about injury issues now than I was when he signed his deal.

[Can_of_corn]

You won round 1, based on Hardy's 2015 performance and injury issues. Hopefully rounds 2 and 3 go better for Hardy and the Orioles.

As to the back issues, I considered them a concern, but Hardy only missed 21 games and was still worth 3.3 rWAR in 2014. I'm a lot more concerned about injury issues now than I was when he signed his deal.

It doesn't feel like I won anything.

[weams]

60? Out of how many thousand?

The real kicker for me with Hardy is the per-existing back issue.

Which has nothing to do with his poor 2015. It was a Labrum tear.

[Can_of_corn]

Which has nothing to do with his poor 2015. It was a Labrum tear.

What about the DL stint and PRP injection because of his groin?

His labrum caused that?

[DrungoHazewood]

60? Out of how many thousand?

The real kicker for me with Hardy is the per-existing back issue.

Not nearly 1000 who had good careers. Obviously guys who played 18 games when they were 23 and disappeared don't count. JJ Hardy's 3.3 fWAR season at 30 was one of 88 seasons in history where a SS had a 2+ win season at that age. He was/is part of a pretty elite group.

[Can_of_corn]

Not nearly 1000 who had good careers. Obviously guys who played 18 games when they were 23 and disappeared don't count. JJ Hardy's 3.3 fWAR season at 30 was one of 88 seasons in history where a SS had a 2+ win season at that age. He was/is part of a pretty elite group.

And it was still bad process to extend him when you had a younger, better, player that you could move to SS.

[Aristotelian]

And it was still bad process to extend him when you had a younger, better, player that you could move to SS.

That guy was playing 3B, and we did not have a replacement for him (still don't). JJ was a perfectly logical guy to sign and $11M seemed reasonable coming off of 2.8 and 2.1 WAR seasons. A few people were on record at the time questioning it, maybe you were one of them, but it seemed like a fine idea at the time.

[DrungoHazewood]

And it was still bad process to extend him when you had a younger, better, player that you could move to SS.

I'm completely unconvinced that you new third baseman would have been better, or that Manny would be as valuable at short. Who would you have acquired to play third?

[Number5]

What about the DL stint and PRP injection because of his groin?

His labrum caused that?

Don't know... but it is more possible than you might think. I know throughout my life if I play sports with some minor, nagging injury issue, I risk injuring something else due to the way I am favoring whatever else was bothering me. This past softball season, I had hurt the big toe on one foot, and then strained the other knee because of the way I was running on the sore foot. It does happen.

[Can_of_corn]

Don't know... but it is more possible than you might think. I know throughout my life if I play sports with some minor, nagging injury issue, I risk injuring something else due to the way I am favoring whatever else was bothering me. This past softball season, I had hurt the big toe on one foot, and then strained the other knee because of the way I was running on the sore foot. It does happen.

I would think lingering back issues would be considerably more likely to cause a groin injury then a labrum injury.

Or you know, simply playing professional baseball.