Jonah Keri on the success of the Orioles in the Duquette/Showalter era

[LookitsPuck]

Good article. But this club is poised for a huge nosedive come 2018 and beyond...and for that I'm very worried about Duquette's poor handling of the farm system.

[25 Nuggets]

Good article. But this club is poised for a huge nosedive come 2018 and beyond...and for that I'm very worried about Duquette's poor handling of the farm system.

I'm inclined to say that the front office expects a nosedive come 2018 followed by a couple rebuilding years... but not sure yet.

[DrungoHazewood]

It's cool, you can give him a B- and point out some stuff that hasn't worked but the fact remains that this team is light years away from where it was pre 2012. Enough time has passed since then to where you can still see some of MacPhail's fingerprints but DD has made his impressions here, too. Record speaks for itself.

I think giving most of the credit to MacPhail is like saying the Yanks of the 1995-2012 era mainly were a product of their farm system since the core was Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Williams. Ignoring that those teams had about $150M in annual payroll above and beyond those four (basically the highest payroll in the game most years without Jeter and buddies), re-upped the homegrown guys with huge deals multiple times, and spent lavishly on international signings.

[atomic]

It's cool, you can give him a B- and point out some stuff that hasn't worked but the fact remains that this team is light years away from where it was pre 2012. Enough time has passed since then to where you can still see some of MacPhail's fingerprints but DD has made his impressions here, too. Record speaks for itself.

It is improve pitching, defense and fundamentals is the reason the team has improved from when Macphail was at the head. The Orioles scored less runs in 2014 than they did in 2011. Other than O'Day, Tillman, and Britton what pitchers are left from Macphail? Having a crappy back of the bullpen and no starter depth were Macphail moves.

[DrungoHazewood]

It is improve pitching, defense and fundamentals is the reason the team has improved from when Macphail was at the head. The Orioles scored less runs in 2014 than they did in 2011. Other than O'Day, Tillman, and Britton what pitchers are left from Macphail? Having a crappy back of the bullpen and no starter depth were Macphail moves.

The back half of the roster was a mess during almost all of the 1998-2011 period. Just pick... 2010. Lou Montanez, Jake Fox, Reimold, Josh Bell, Rhyne Hughes, Scott Moore, Julio Lugo, all replacement-level or worse. And the starting lineup featured Ty Wigginton, Cesar Izturis, and Miguel Tejada Part Deaux, again, all worse than replacement level. And then there was Garrett Atkins... MacPhail's swing-and-miss rate on filling out a working, MLB roster was abysmal.

[Sessh]

IMO, Showalter will not be the guy to lead the Orioles to the World Series. We've already seen his best. He is 9-13 career in the postseason and in 17 years, he's only made it to the ALCS once and we got swept easily. He will not be the guy to lead the Orioles to a championship. He's just not that good and never has been. DD and Buck have both helped the Orioles to make great strides without question, but the ceiling has been reached. Showalter is not a championship caliber manager nor is any manager who allows his personal feelings and biases to interfere with his managing decisions as much as he does. From leaving pitchers in too long so they can "get the win" only for them to give up a game deciding home run to refusing to play players that DD/PA brought here to do a job (K-Rod, Kim etc) to stubbornly sticking with players far longer than he should, it's easy to see why Buck doesn't lead teams to championships. I know many here seem to be content with being regular season champions, but I want a World Series and the Buck/DD combination isn't going to do it especially considering that it seems like our FO trio isn't even on the same page anymore and embarrassed themselves multiple times this offseason alone as a result.

[Redskins Rick]

IMO, Showalter will not be the guy to lead the Orioles to the World Series. We've already seen his best. He is 9-13 career in the postseason and in 17 years, he's only made it to the ALCS once and we got swept easily. He will not be the guy to lead the Orioles to a championship. He's just not that good and never has been. DD and Buck have both helped the Orioles to make great strides without question, but the ceiling has been reached. Showalter is not a championship caliber manager nor is any manager who allows his personal feelings and biases to interfere with his managing decisions as much as he does. From leaving pitchers in too long so they can "get the win" only for them to give up a game deciding home run to refusing to play players that DD/PA brought here to do a job (K-Rod, Kim etc) to stubbornly sticking with players far longer than he should, it's easy to see why Buck doesn't lead teams to championships. I know many here seem to be content with being regular season champions, but I want a World Series and the Buck/DD combination isn't going to do it especially considering that it seems like our FO trio isn't even on the same page anymore and embarrassed themselves multiple times this offseason alone as a result.

Horse Hockey, don't even think about playing the Fowler card, as an embarrassment to the organization, thats all on Fowler.

Do you remember who the manager was for the 1983 team?

The manager of the winning WS team, isn't always the best guy in the game. Sometimes its a little matter called luck, or sometimes referred to as Oriole Magic.

You slam Buck for managing pitchers and bullpen.

Yet, I read and heard multiple people in the media say that Buck is probably the best manager at this.

Davey Johnson got a very good Orioles team to the ALCS and got beat, it happens, it sucks, but it does happen.

[SilentJames]

IMO, Showalter will not be the guy to lead the Orioles to the World Series. We've already seen his best. He is 9-13 career in the postseason and in 17 years, he's only made it to the ALCS once and we got swept easily. He will not be the guy to lead the Orioles to a championship. He's just not that good and never has been. DD and Buck have both helped the Orioles to make great strides without question, but the ceiling has been reached. Showalter is not a championship caliber manager nor is any manager who allows his personal feelings and biases to interfere with his managing decisions as much as he does. From leaving pitchers in too long so they can "get the win" only for them to give up a game deciding home run to refusing to play players that DD/PA brought here to do a job (K-Rod, Kim etc) to stubbornly sticking with players far longer than he should, it's easy to see why Buck doesn't lead teams to championships. I know many here seem to be content with being regular season champions, but I want a World Series and the Buck/DD combination isn't going to do it especially considering that it seems like our FO trio isn't even on the same page anymore and embarrassed themselves multiple times this offseason alone as a result.

our bullpen is routinely one of the best in baseball and that has a lot to do with Buck's management of it. Yes we got swept by the Royals the Royals had a BABIP in that series of .330, the Orioles .262. The Royals were a freecking buzzsaw through the AL playoffs playing to a team OPS of .779 (their regular season average was .690), sometimes you get beat the Orioles were a good team that got beat by a better team. Under Showalter's management the Orioles have beaten their projected winning percentage each of the last four years, they have been in playoff contention the last three and made the playoffs twice.

This is a bad baseball opinion.

[weams]

IMO, Showalter will not be the guy to lead the Orioles to the World Series. We've already seen his best. He is 9-13 career in the postseason and in 17 years, he's only made it to the ALCS once and we got swept easily. He will not be the guy to lead the Orioles to a championship. He's just not that good and never has been. DD and Buck have both helped the Orioles to make great strides without question, but the ceiling has been reached. Showalter is not a championship caliber manager nor is any manager who allows his personal feelings and biases to interfere with his managing decisions as much as he does. From leaving pitchers in too long so they can "get the win" only for them to give up a game deciding home run to refusing to play players that DD/PA brought here to do a job (K-Rod, Kim etc) to stubbornly sticking with players far longer than he should, it's easy to see why Buck doesn't lead teams to championships. I know many here seem to be content with being regular season champions, but I want a World Series and the Buck/DD combination isn't going to do it especially considering that it seems like our FO trio isn't even on the same page anymore and embarrassed themselves multiple times this offseason alone as a result.

Poor post for you. I'm sure you don't really mean those things. I think you are just still mad about Kim not starting.

[DrungoHazewood]

IMO, Showalter will not be the guy to lead the Orioles to the World Series. We've already seen his best. He is 9-13 career in the postseason and in 17 years, he's only made it to the ALCS once and we got swept easily. He will not be the guy to lead the Orioles to a championship. He's just not that good and never has been. DD and Buck have both helped the Orioles to make great strides without question, but the ceiling has been reached. Showalter is not a championship caliber manager nor is any manager who allows his personal feelings and biases to interfere with his managing decisions as much as he does. From leaving pitchers in too long so they can "get the win" only for them to give up a game deciding home run to refusing to play players that DD/PA brought here to do a job (K-Rod, Kim etc) to stubbornly sticking with players far longer than he should, it's easy to see why Buck doesn't lead teams to championships. I know many here seem to be content with being regular season champions, but I want a World Series and the Buck/DD combination isn't going to do it especially considering that it seems like our FO trio isn't even on the same page anymore and embarrassed themselves multiple times this offseason alone as a result.

I disagree with almost every word of this post. "Championship caliber manager" What does that even mean? Are you suggesting skill gave Ned Yost a ring over Buck? KC fans were advocating his firing the month they made the postseason for the first time in 30 years. What a totally misguided post.

[Sessh]

Poor post for you. I'm sure you don't really mean those things. I think you are just still mad about Kim not starting.

His track record speaks for itself. He has had teams that were very good that he couldn't get out of the first round and if not for a incompetent Tigers bullpen, that may have turned out differently too. Buck is not a World

Series caliber manager. The 2012 Orioles were better than the Yankees and should have won that series and although we probably wouldn't have beat KC in 2014, we certainly shouldn't have been swept the way we were.

By the way, Kim is a minescule part of this, please. Showalter, in 17 years with several good teams, has not been able to turn it into a World Series Championship or even a single ALCS win and only one appearance.

Teams get better when he leaves maybe not for any reasons I mentioned, but there must be a reason that when teams let Buck go, those teams immediately get better. He has been a stepping stone on the way to a

championship team, but could never do it himself or even come close to it.

[Phantom]

IMO, Showalter will not be the guy to lead the Orioles to the World Series. We've already seen his best. He is 9-13 career in the postseason

Joe Madden is 17-22 career in the postseason. I find your reasoning here to be terrible.

[osfan83]

Joe Madden is 17-22 career in the postseason. I find your reasoning here to be terrible.

That's because Joe Madden isn't a championship caliber manager! :rolleyestf:

[DrungoHazewood]

His track record speaks for itself. He has had teams that were very good that he couldn't get out of the first round and if not for a incompetent Tigers bullpen, that may have turned out differently too. Buck is not a World Series caliber manager. The 2012 Orioles were better than the Yankees and should have won that series and although we probably wouldn't have beat KC in 2014, we certainly shouldn't have been swept the way we were. By the way, Kim is a minescule part of this, please. Showalter, in 17 years with several good teams, has not been able to turn it into a World Series Championship or even a single ALCS win and only one appearance. Teams get better when he leaves maybe not for any reasons I mentioned, but there must be a reason that when teams let Buck go, those teams immediately get better. He has been a stepping stone on the way to a championship team, but could never do it himself or even come close to it.

You appear to be operating under the grossly mistaken assumption that playoff victories are primarily a result of the manager. The manager is probably 1% of the equation, with talent and luck being most of the other 99%.

[Why Not?]

Since then, he has been 50/50 on his free agent signings and trades.

What's the MLB average on this? I think Duquette's done a nice job finding talent without making the devastatingly bad moves that can bury a team.