Gausman is beginning to remind me of Guthrie

[waroriole]

Was he serious, or joking? Flawlessly in character, or not possessing the self-awareness to realize he'd strayed 1000 nautical miles into self-parody? Actually standing on his front porch shaking his fist at the lollygaggers and whippersnappers, or sitting at a tricked-out gaming rig laughing at his ruse? Born in 1862 and transported here though technological means, or born in 1955 and somehow frozen in a Daguerreotype through dark witchcraft?

It's posts like those that make me think OldFan is a lot brighter than he appears, and might be some master level sorcerer

[Redskins Rick]

It's posts like those that make me think OldFan is a lot brighter than he appears, and might be some master level sorcerer

No, but claims he belongs to MENSA.

[Can_of_corn]

It's posts like those that make me think OldFan is a lot brighter than he appears, and might be some master level sorcerer

He's just a fan of the long con.

[Can_of_corn]

No, but claims he belongs to MENSA.

They only requirements to get into MENSA are scoring in the top 1% on certain tests and being insecure about the rest of your life.

[Frobby]

Getting this thread back on its original track: I've always been a bit skeptical of the research that finds no evidence to support that some pitchers who are otherwise good have trouble holding a narrow lead, while other guys are able to bear down in that situation. I'm not going to say that I have compelling evidence in the other direction. I'll just say that there were certain opposing pitchers and Oriole where I always felt that if we stayed in the game and kept it close, they would find a way to let us back in, and there were other guys where I felt that if they had the lead, we were doomed. It may be complete B.S. and false intuition on my part, but personally I think there is something to it and that it shouldn't be surprising that different people react to certain situations differently.

As to Gausman, it is too early in his career for me to label him as a guy who can't hold a short lead but pitches well from behind. I just have concerns about it. I fully acknowledge that the fact that he hasn't been credited with a win this year is primarily due to the poor run support that he received in a few games where he pitched extremely well.

[Phantom]

Getting this thread back on its original track: I've always been a bit skeptical of the research that finds no evidence to support that some pitchers who are otherwise good have trouble holding a narrow lead, while other guys are able to bear down in that situation. I'm not going to say that I have compelling evidence in the other direction. I'll just say that there were certain opposing pitchers and Oriole where I always felt that if we stayed in the game and kept it close, they would find a way to let us back in, and there were other guys where I felt that if they had the lead, we were doomed. It may be complete B.S. and false intuition on my part, but personally I think there is something to it and that it shouldn't be surprising that different people react to certain situations differently.

Can you explain this at all? This seems like something that is really easily provable, and yet every study I've shows no evidence that major league pitchers are like that. I can certainly understand your feelings. I felt the same way about Jack Morris (well, the opposite way I suppose). Then, advanced stats came along and proved my feelings were 100% wrong. In fact, advanced stats should have the tagline "why your feelings are liars".

[Frobby]

Can you explain this at all? This seems like something that is really easily provable, and yet every study I've shows no evidence that major league pitchers are like that. I can certainly understand your feelings. I felt the same way about Jack Morris (well, the opposite way I suppose). Then, advanced stats came along and proved my feelings were 100% wrong. In fact, advanced stats should have the tagline "why your feelings are liars".

How many studies have there really been on the topic? I recall one from maybe 20 years ago. I recall the conclusion, but not the methodology.

[Frobby]

By the way, regardless of what you think the general rule is, it's rather striking that Gausman has a career .888 OPSA when pitching with a lead, and .646 when pitching from behind. That's a really drastic difference. For Guthrie, for example, it's .777 vs. .768.

[TouchemAll]

Getting this thread back on its original track: I've always been a bit skeptical of the research that finds no evidence to support that some pitchers who are otherwise good have trouble holding a narrow lead, while other guys are able to bear down in that situation. I'm not going to say that I have compelling evidence in the other direction. I'll just say that there were certain opposing pitchers and Oriole where I always felt that if we stayed in the game and kept it close, they would find a way to let us back in, and there were other guys where I felt that if they had the lead, we were doomed. It may be complete B.S. and false intuition on my part, but personally I think there is something to it and that it shouldn't be surprising that different people react to certain situations differently.

As to Gausman, it is too early in his career for me to label him as a guy who can't hold a short lead but pitches well from behind. I just have concerns about it. I fully acknowledge that the fact that he hasn't been credited with a win this year is primarily due to the poor run support that he received in a few games where he pitched extremely well.

I agree, but until Gausman comes up with a GOOD breaking ball he's average, nothing more, nothing less.

[Old#5fan]

No, but claims he belongs to MENSA.

No sir not me, you must be thinking of another poster long ago from Sunspot named Bobbyjr. He claimed he was a Mensan to great ridicule I recall. I always got along just fine with him though even though the mob over there treated him terribly.

[Moose Milligan]

Run support is essential for pitchers and waht they can do as far as attacking hitters.

Kevin Gausman has had pitched to batters for a total of 1,371 Plate Appearances. Of those 1371 PA's only 302 were made when the team had a lead, 569 PA's when Tied and 500 PA's when Behind in the score.

This year he has 30 Plate Apperances while sitting on a lead. He has no lead of greater than two runs, he has given up 5 runs during the time with a lead. Prior to this evenings game he had last pitched with the lead on May 15th

His slash line in 2016 with the lead is .346/.433/.692/1.126 G=3, PA=30, R=5, AB=26, H=9, 2B=1, 3B=1, HR=2, BB=3, SO=3, HBP=1, ROE=1

It could be said he pitches better when not in the lead but tied or behind.

So he pitches better when not in the lead, or tied...but he's only got a small fraction of plate appearances when he's in the lead.

Kind of like saying most shark attacks happen near the shore. Yeah, that's where the people are.

[Ruzious]

The O's rarely gave him more than a 1 or 2 run lead, so it's kind of ridiculous to blame him for losing leads. It's basically calling him a choker if he's not an ace. He wasn't an ace and wasn't paid anywhere near ace money by the O's. He was a very good solid dependable pitcher when the O's had very little talent to help him.

[thezeroes]

So he pitches better when not in the lead, or tied...but he's only got a small fraction of plate appearances when he's in the lead.

Kind of like saying most shark attacks happen near the shore. Yeah, that's where the people are.

The premise of my post you are responding to is in the first sentence.

"Run support is essential for pitchers and what they can do as far as attacking hitters."

The last line was more tongue in cheek.

"It could be said he pitches better when not in the lead but tied or behind."

[LookitsPuck]

Apparently Gausman took lessons from Ubaldo on how to allow 5 runs in the blink of an eye to the Red Sox. Good grief. His slider is hot garbage.

[Dark Helmet]

So which team will turn Gausman into a Cy Young winner after a few seasons of not reaching his potential here?