Going by what Buck said, I assume Jimenez will keep getting thrown out there (To the Pen)

[O's84]

I don't think Gallardo has been 93-94 in years. He better be 89-92 or he and the O's are in big trouble.

Yep, if he's back and still throwing 84-87 he's not going to be of much help.

[El Gordo]

One thing is we don't need a 5th SP except for twice the next few weeks. So we won't be seeing much if anything from Ubaldo.

[LookitsPuck]

I don't think Gallardo has been 93-94 in years. He better be 89-92 or he and the O's are in big trouble.

Maxed out 94mph last year. Sat around 91.

This year was pretty damn bad. Maxed out at 90. Sat 88.

We're talking about losing 3-4mph.

He also lost velocity on his slider.

But you're right. He needs a few ticks on his velocity. Those last few starts it seemed like he was lucky to hit 87.

[LookitsPuck]

So in this post you say Gallardo isn't very good because of his significant drop in velocity. Yet in other posts you are all bent out of shape that we got rid of a guy who had a very similar drop in velocity, Miguel Gonzalez.

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Miguel Gonzalez

4 seamer fastball velocity:

2014: 93.9 max, 90.9 avg

2015: 94.1 max, 91 avg

2016: 93.0 max, 91 avg

2 seamer fastball velocity:

2014: 93.9 max, 90.8 avg

2015: 94.0 max, 91.1 avg

2016: 93.9 max, 91.3 avg

I mean, the O's just plain screwed up. If you're talking about a dip in velocity during spring training, OK, fine. But there is no significant dip in velocity. For any of his pitches.

For some reason, saving $4m or whatever it was was more important than having a reliable starter with options. When in reality it'd have been a much better use of money to non offer Matusz arbitration, save the loot, keep our comp pick and option Gonzo.

[Aglets]

I also think there might be a little bit of deception going on with this thread, especially the title.

Here's what Buck said (reported by Roch):

Did Jimenez make his last appearances with the Orioles yesterday? Manager Buck Showalter gave a familiar answer yesterday when reporters pressed him on the subject.

"We have to look at other possibilities," Showalter said. "But if we do something, he's going to hear about it from us long before he reads about it."

Those seem like words designed to be as respectful as possible, while basically admitting, "yea we need to do something here."

I'm not convinced Ubaldo will start another game for the Orioles.

[tntoriole]

Miguel Gonzalez

4 seamer fastball velocity:

2014: 93.9 max, 90.9 avg

2015: 94.1 max, 91 avg

2016: 93.0 max, 91 avg

2 seamer fastball velocity:

2014: 93.9 max, 90.8 avg

2015: 94.0 max, 91.1 avg

2016: 93.9 max, 91.3 avg

I mean, the O's just plain screwed up. If you're talking about a dip in velocity during spring training, OK, fine. But there is no significant dip in velocity. For any of his pitches.

For some reason, saving $4m or whatever it was was more important than having a reliable starter with options. When in reality it'd have been a much better use of money to non offer Matusz arbitration, save the loot, keep our comp pick and option Gonzo.

Exactly. I made these points as well at the time Miggy was released. AND, if he had even been optioned, well, he would have been back in this rotation well before now. People need to stop just giving DD a blanket pass because he built on AM's and Buck's accomplishments. He has done some things right, but he has also made some serious misjudgements at a time when we do have the talent to win a World Series, imho. And, in those misjudgements, he has also crippled our farm system in terms of pitching talent, imho.

[tntoriole]

I also think there might be a little bit of deception going on with this thread, especially the title.

Here's what Buck said (reported by Roch):

Those seem like words designed to be as respectful as possible, while basically admitting, "yea we need to do something here."

I'm not convinced Ubaldo will start another game for the Orioles.

I agree. I think Ubaldo is done starting for Buck. If I am a starting pitcher and I read that Buck is "looking at other possibilities", well, it doesn't take an anvil to hit me on the head.

[Orioles Jim]

I was talking with my Dad last night, and we both agreed that he probably needs to get the Pablo Sandoval treatment: 60 day DL with an "injury" and say "This year failed, see you in Florida in February." Then you can figure it out in his contract walk year. If he still sucks, you're only eating a year. If by some miracle he comes back ready to pitch for his walk year, then reap the benefits, but for God's sakes, don't ever bring him back after.

[Aristotelian]

Exactly. I made these points as well at the time Miggy was released. AND, if he had even been optioned, well, he would have been back in this rotation well before now. People need to stop just giving DD a blanket pass because he built on AM's and Buck's accomplishments. He has done some things right, but he has also made some serious misjudgements at a time when we do have the talent to win a World Series, imho. And, in those misjudgements, he has also crippled our farm system in terms of pitching talent, imho.

The Ubaldo problem would still be happening regardless of Miguel. Miguel had a bad year and a bad spring with a major drop in velocity. He was given a chance to make the team and he didn't do it. He was also going to cost about $5M. DD took a calculated risk that he could use the money to sign Fowler and find the next Miguel in Tyler Wilson or Mike Wright. It is possible that one or the other still outproduces Miguel over the 2-3 years, if not this year.

The White Sox took a no-risk flyer to sign Miguel to a minor league contract. Completely different decision calculus for them.

[atomic]

So in reading Buck's comments it appears that Buck not only doesn't want Jiminez to start again he doesn't want him in the bullpen. I don't really get what the original poster was hearing. He specifically said he wasn't going to let Jiminez read about it and would tell him face to face.

I don't know why they can't hide him in the bulllpen. They hid rule 5 guys in the bullpen. They hid Kevin Gregg in the Bullpen. As the team is in serious need of starting pitching. I would hide Jiminez in the bullpen and let him work on getting his act together. Maybe he could get an "Injury" in the bullpen and do 2 or 3 rehab starts in Triple A. I wouldn't throw 20 million dollars away. Jiminez was effective the first half of last year.

[backwardsk]

If Jimenez gives his consent to be optioned, then that may be the best course of action.

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[LookitsPuck]

The Ubaldo problem would still be happening regardless of Miguel. Miguel had a bad year and a bad spring with a major drop in velocity. He was given a chance to make the team and he didn't do it. He was also going to cost about $5M. DD took a calculated risk that he could use the money to sign Fowler and find the next Miguel in Tyler Wilson or Mike Wright. It is possible that one or the other still outproduces Miguel over the 2-3 years, if not this year.

The White Sox took a no-risk flyer to sign Miguel to a minor league contract. Completely different decision calculus for them.

It was irresponsible of Duquette. We're talking saving $4m instead of having a guy that would be a decent fallback option if (when?) one of Wright, Gallardo, Wilson, or Ubaldo fails. So if it's not Duquette making the call, who on Earth said Miggy was toast? Once again, this is another quick turnaround for a pitcher. It's not like it took him 6 months or a year to turn it around. No, it was literally a couple starts and his velocity was "back". I think the reports of his diminished velocity were greatly exaggerated.

[LookitsPuck]

So in reading Buck's comments it appears that Buck not only doesn't want Jiminez to start again he doesn't want him in the bullpen. I don't really get what the original poster was hearing. He specifically said he wasn't going to let Jiminez read about it and would tell him face to face.

I don't know why they can't hide him in the bulllpen. They hid rule 5 guys in the bullpen. They hid Kevin Gregg in the Bullpen. As the team is in serious need of starting pitching. I would hide Jiminez in the bullpen and let him work on getting his act together. Maybe he could get an "Injury" in the bullpen and do 2 or 3 rehab starts in Triple A. I wouldn't throw 20 million dollars away. Jiminez was effective the first half of last year.

Because this team doesn't have a starting rotation where you can hide multiple guys in the bullpen. They're already playing down O'Day. The guys can barely go 5 IP. Unfortunately that means Ubaldo would have to pitch out of the bullpen. And his mechanics and effectiveness is so poor, you can't even put him out there in a bullpen role.

[brianod]

Ubaldo never had great command. I fear those that continue to say that he's got good stuff are living in the past. He is a lethal combination of horrible command and below average stuff. The decision shouldn't be whether to start him again, it should be whether to cut him or hide him in the pen.

[TouchemAll]

The guys command issue's only degrade the pen worse so just like Buck said that's most likely not and option. I think it's down to Ubaldo agreeing to get optioned or DFA.

Roch says the O's are willing to eat what's left.

At this point I don't really care your AA and AAA pitchers could do no worse then Ubaldo right now?

OK I guess we could always fall in another hole in the parking lot and go on the DL.