If we miss the playoffs this year, trade Manny and sign Schoop

[Aristotelian]

Why would the Atros trade Bregman for Manny? Bergman can play short or third and has more years of team control and is producing at major league level.

I agree, it is unlikely they do it. They would have to be committed to going all in on the theory that 10+ WAR of Manny would give them a world series right now. As good as Bregman looks, there is still some uncertainty with his offense while Manny has proven he can hit .300/.850 with 30 HR.

[Moondoggie]

You really can't see the difference between Rizzo's 7/41 / Trout's 6/144.5 and giving Manny 10 years at $400 million? Really? If we could sign Manny for either one of those contracts, I would do it. Manny is going to break

the bank and it will also break the Orioles' back. There is zero comparison between those contracts and what Manny is going to get. Manny will cost more than both those guys combined maybe even double that and he

has already had what, three major knee injuries? Maybe they are fixed permanently and maybe they're not. You're willing to bet $400 million on that? You would rather have Manny even if it means that team is ultimately

a fourth or fifth place team every year?

You obviously didn't read what I wrote. First of all, Manny ain't getting $400 million even if he goes to free agency. But had you bothered to read what I said, you'd know I was talking about locking him up and buying out his arbitration years just as the Angels did with Trout and the Cubs with Rizzo. I said they should have offered him the Davis money for eight years, which would have given him the security of getting the big contract now (negating the chance that a catastrophic injury might keep him from ever getting the big one) and a chance to get out there again for another big contract at age 31 if he retains his health and production.

I would also argue that avoiding 4th or 5th place would be a lot easier with Manny than without him. Prospects are overvalued. Few of them -- even the top ones -- really work out as hoped. Google the Baseball America top 100 prospects for 2009 and you'll be surprised at what you see. In fact, I'll give you the top 10: Wieters, Price, Colby Rasmus, Tommy Hanson, Jason Heyward, Travis Snider, Brett Anderson, Cameron Maybin, Madison Bumgarner and Neftali Feliz. Now how many of those guys would you really want to deal Manny away to get? Are you really confident the guys will turn out to be Price and Bumgarner rather than Tommy Hanson and Travis Snider?

If you extend Manny for seven or eight years, then you have that time to build around him. You don't have to dynamite the thing all to hell.

a) Stanton got 13/325. The bidding for Manny in 2018 will start at 10/325, and it will not end there. You say trading Manny is a "gamble," but how is the insane contract he will get be anything other than a massive gamble on one player?

2) You know what got us a decade in the wilderness? Failing to trade Mussina when we had a chance. Instead he sauntered over to the Yanks and we were left with nothing.

See above. You guys are talking about paying him after he hits free agency (and are overvaluing what he will get even then). I'm talking about extending him now (or, more precisely, arguing it should have been done last offseason) and saving a lot of money while giving Manny the security of a huge contract he won't get if his career is cut short by injuries over the next couple of years.

[24fps]

I'm pretty certain that wherever Manny goes, it will be somewhere with opt-outs after 5 or so of those 10 years.

It's the new normal for great players in their prime. As much as I detest idle talk about tearing down an Orioles team that is very much in contention with games still to play, if PA remains adamant about not offering an opt-out to players of Manny's caliber then trading him before he reaches free agency becomes a reasonable choice.

[El Gordo]

The best Manny can hope for the next two years of arb is2 5 M IMO. so offer him 30 plus 3 years AAV 40 M. That's better than anything he can expect for the next 5 years. If you could offer him 10/300 now with an opt out at 3 years he'd jump at it.

[OriolesMagic83]

The best Manny can hope for the next two years of arb is2 5 M IMO. so offer him 30 plus 3 years AAV 40 M. That's better than anything he can expect for the next 5 years. If you could offer him 10/300 now with an opt out at 3 years he'd jump at it.

I would definitely offer him the 10/300 contract, but with an opt out at 5 years. 3 years only gives the O's Manny for 1 FA year. I wish Davis had a better year. If I was GM, I would trade Davis to free up the money. I guess that would never be approved by Angelos.

[Can_of_corn]

I would definitely offer him the 10/300 contract, but with an opt out at 5 years. 3 years only gives the O's Manny for 1 FA year. I wish Davis had a better year. If I was GM, I would trade Davis to free up the money. I guess that would never be approved by Angelos.

How much of Davis' contract would you be willing to eat?

[weams]

How much of Davis' contract would you be willing to eat?

We know Mr Angelos declined to eat 16 million on Ubaldo.

[Frobby]

We know Mr Angelos declined to eat 16 million on Ubaldo.

Actually, I thought Roch reported that Angelos was OK jettisoning Ubaldo if DD decided that was the prudent move. (This doesn't specify Angelos, but implies it: http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2016/06/has-ubaldo-jimenez-run-out-of-chances.html )

In any event, I have this hope that Ubaldo has "found it" and will give us a few more quality starts down the stretch. His three starts since the All Star break have all been high quality.

[El Gordo]

How much of Davis' contract would you be willing to eat?

I think you could trade Davis if you ate the deferred money.

[El Gordo]

Actually, I thought Roch reported that Angelos was OK jettisoning Ubaldo if DD decided that was the prudent move. (This doesn't specify Angelos, but implies it: http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2016/06/has-ubaldo-jimenez-run-out-of-chances.html )

In any event, I have this hope that Ubaldo has "found it" and will give us a few more quality starts down the stretch. His three starts since the All Star break have all been high quality.

If this is true why did he scotch the Upton Cashner trade?

[Frobby]

If this is true why did he scotch the Upton Cashner trade?

Did he? Link, please. I don't recall the details.

[El Gordo]

Did he? Link, please. I don't recall the details.

Something I heard discussed on MLB XM.

[Morgan423]

We're overrating Manny a bit here. As great as Manny is he has yet to finish in the Top 5 in total WAR. This could be the first season he finishes in the Top 10, currently at #6 (according to Baseball-Reference.com).

He's great, but the O's have an opportunity here to maybe get him for a somewhat team friendly deal because he hasn't yet had a Mike Trout, Jose Altuve or Mookie Betts type of year.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_top_ten.shtml

No offense, but you're not measuring this by the correct measurements (comparing to various others in the league, in individual seasons) to get a true scope of what Manny is doing. Take a look at the bigger picture. He's putting up HoF numbers... really, the only question is, which tier?

Manny is presently averaging 6.7 WAR per 162 games for his career. Of course, you can't say he's going to keep that pace up for an entire career (that would put him at about 130 - 135 WAR over a 20 season career, accounting that he lost the equivalent of a season to his knee injuries)... but if he managed it? He's in the neighborhood of only two other infielders in the history of the MLB (Honus Wagner at 131 WAR and Rogers Hornsby at 127 WAR).

Even if he drops off a bit (say finishes closer to 4.5 to 5.5 WAR a season) he's still going to finish in the 85 - 105 WAR range. That would put him right in there in range with shortstops and third basemen like Cal (who at 95.5 WAR, has the second highest WAR total in history for a shortstop), Wade Boggs (91 WAR), and George Brett (88.4 WAR). Once again: that's presuming he finishes his career at pace that's about 75% to 80% of his present one.

That's how we should be judging Manny. If he can keep this up, he'll not just be a Hall of Famer. He'll be a legend.

[Frobby]

No offense, but you're not measuring this by the correct measurements (comparing to various others in the league, in individual seasons) to get a true scope of what Manny is doing. Take a look at the bigger picture. He's putting up HoF numbers... really, the only question is, which tier?

Manny is presently averaging 6.7 WAR per 162 games for his career. Of course, you can't say he's going to keep that pace up for an entire career (that would put him at about 130 - 135 WAR over a 20 season career, accounting that he lost the equivalent of a season to his knee injuries)... but if he managed it? He's in the neighborhood of only two other infielders in the history of the MLB (Honus Wagner at 131 WAR and Rogers Hornsby at 127 WAR).

Even if he drops off a bit (say finishes closer to 4.5 to 5.5 WAR a season) he's still going to finish in the 85 - 105 WAR range. That would put him right in there in range with shortstops and third basemen like Cal (who at 95.5 WAR, has the second highest WAR total in history for a shortstop), Wade Boggs (91 WAR), and George Brett (88.4 WAR). Once again: that's presuming he finishes his career at pace that's about 75% to 80% of his present one.

That's how we should be judging Manny. If he can keep this up, he'll not just be a Hall of Famer. He'll be a legend.

You can kind of think of it this way: Ken Griffey, Jr. was worth 30.1 WAR through his age 23 season in 734 games; Manny has been worth 24.0 WAR through his age 23 year old season in 580 games (28 games to go this season, so he could pick up another 1.0 WAR this season). Griffey was worth 83 WAR in his career but most of that was through his age 30 season. If Manny has a healthier career he could easily surpass that. But you never know how a player will age and what injuries may slow them down.

[weams]

Actually, I thought Roch reported that Angelos was OK jettisoning Ubaldo if DD decided that was the prudent move. (This doesn't specify Angelos, but implies it: http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2016/06/has-ubaldo-jimenez-run-out-of-chances.html )

In any event, I have this hope that Ubaldo has "found it" and will give us a few more quality starts down the stretch. His three starts since the All Star break have all been high quality.

And yet, Mr. Angelos did not permit the trade for Upton. I'd say Roch was mistaken, or misguided by someone.