2016 second half offensive struggle

[Number5]

 

Just not being on your feet, running, in the "ready position" etc all take a bit more effort than just sitting on the bench.  You run a guy out there 160 games in a 162 game season, they get tired.  You run a guy out there 140 games they have less said wear and tare... thats just my opinion.  And Jones had some things tweaked, and he didnt sit out all that much.  Davis had his thumbed messed up and he didnt sit out.  This is just my experience from playing and I think some of it is relevant.    

For me the showing up and warming up and running and taking infield/outfield and taking bp is what took it out of me.  No difference between playing third base in the game and sitting on the bench as far as getting tired is concerned for me.  In fact probably more tiring to watch than play for me.  Pitching and catching is a different thing, as I said.  Different strokes, I guess, but I have trouble buying into sitting out a game really helping for non-pitchers and non-catchers, barring injury.  I realize that many may disagree.

[BohKnowsBmore]

 

Don't play Schoop every single day. I love Buck, but I think his biggest fault is not giving the position players enough rest.

Yet, when Buck does play Flash and Joseph on a Sunday, people grouse about him waving the white flag.

[BohKnowsBmore]

What was the team's overall performance in the second half?  Focusing on Trumbo and Schoop may be misleading as those guys had great first halves, so it's not entirely surprising when they have some regression in the second half.  Look at Pedro.  Very poor first couple of months, then he was way better later in the season.  Did Buck and the coaches do something different for him?

[Frobby]

 

What was the team's overall performance in the second half?  Focusing on Trumbo and Schoop may be misleading as those guys had great first halves, so it's not entirely surprising when they have some regression in the second half.  Look at Pedro.  Very poor first couple of months, then he was way better later in the season.  Did Buck and the coaches do something different for him?

The offense was considerably worse in the second half.    Pedro is a notoriously slow starter and so he was one of the few exceptions.    

The starting pitching was much better in the second half.

[BohKnowsBmore]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

The offense was considerably worse in the second half.    Pedro is a notoriously slow starter and so he was one of the few exceptions.    

The starting pitching was much better in the second half.

Yes, just like Trumbo is typically a hot starter.  I think it's worth noting that some guys got better as the season went on if the question is "what are the manager and staff going to do to prevent guys like Trumbo from regressing?"

[terps19]

10 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Yes, just like Trumbo is typically a hot starter.  I think it's worth noting that some guys got better as the season went on if the question is "what are the manager and staff going to do to prevent guys like Trumbo from regressing?"

Yes how do you keep Trumbo hot?  Apparently, based on splits alone, it is by keeping him in RF 

[Frobby]

10 hours ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Yes, just like Trumbo is typically a hot starter.  I think it's worth noting that some guys got better as the season went on if the question is "what are the manager and staff going to do to prevent guys like Trumbo from regressing?"

Better: Alvarez and Hardy.

Worse: Davis, Schoop, Machado, Wieters, Joseph, Flaherty, Kim, Jones, Trumbo, Reimold.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php?/topic/26905-comparing-the-orioles-first-halfsecond-half-grades/#comment-2052087

 

[PaulFolk]

23 hours ago, Number5 said:

For me the showing up and warming up and running and taking infield/outfield and taking bp is what took it out of me.  No difference between playing third base in the game and sitting on the bench as far as getting tired is concerned for me.  In fact probably more tiring to watch than play for me.  Pitching and catching is a different thing, as I said.  Different strokes, I guess, but I have trouble buying into sitting out a game really helping for non-pitchers and non-catchers, barring injury.  I realize that many may disagree.

Am I misunderstanding your argument? Because on the surface it doesn't make a lick of sense. How can you say that being an active player in a 3-4 hour baseball game isn't any more tiring than sitting on the bench the whole game? That's like saying that going jogging isn't any more tiring than sitting in a recliner. It's literally the difference between being active and not being active.

You say that taking infield/outfield is one of the most exhausting parts. Well, someone who participates in the game is doing that before every single inning, while someone on the bench isn't doing it at all except pregame. Then you add in the actual defensive plays they need to make throughout the game, the 4-5 at-bats, the running (both in the field and on the bases), and just the mental focus needed during the game. It's obviously much more strenuous than taking a seat on the bench the whole game. And when you do it 162 times a year, the physical and mental fatigue take a toll.

Giving a player a few games off here and there won't cure all ailments, but it certainly helps provide some rest.

[Number5]

15 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

Am I misunderstanding your argument? Because on the surface it doesn't make a lick of sense. How can you say that being an active player in a 3-4 hour baseball game isn't any more tiring than sitting on the bench the whole game? That's like saying that going jogging isn't any more tiring than sitting in a recliner. It's literally the difference between being active and not being active.

You say that taking infield/outfield is one of the most exhausting parts. Well, someone who participates in the game is doing that before every single inning, while someone on the bench isn't doing it at all except pregame. Then you add in the actual defensive plays they need to make throughout the game, the 4-5 at-bats, the running (both in the field and on the bases), and just the mental focus needed during the game. It's obviously much more strenuous than taking a seat on the bench the whole game. And when you do it 162 times a year, the physical and mental fatigue take a toll.

Giving a player a few games off here and there won't cure all ailments, but it certainly helps provide some rest.

Not misunderstanding at all.  Sitting on the bench for a game isn't a day off.  It just isn't.  The player still goes to work, still warms up, runs, takes infield/outfield, takes bp, stays mentally in the game, and stays for the duration of the game.  Your analogy of sitting on the recliner is the exact opposite of what I am saying.  These players are at work and active, whether they play in the game or not.  It simply isn't the same as you or I taking the day off from work.  As I said, I realize that a lot of folks will disagree, and you are welcome to do so. 

[PaulFolk]

14 hours ago, Number5 said:

Not misunderstanding at all.  Sitting on the bench for a game isn't a day off.  It just isn't.  The player still goes to work, still warms up, runs, takes infield/outfield, takes bp, stays mentally in the game, and stays for the duration of the game.  Your analogy of sitting on the recliner is the exact opposite of what I am saying.  These players are at work and active, whether they play in the game or not.  It simply isn't the same as you or I taking the day off from work.  As I said, I realize that a lot of folks will disagree, and you are welcome to do so. 

Sure, it's not a complete day off. But it's certainly closer to a day off than someone who is actually participating in the game, and it provides more of a rest.

Someone who does all the pregame routines and then plays a 3-hour baseball game is going to get more tired than someone who does all the pregame routines and then sits on the bench for 3 hours. That's not even debatable. That's just how the human body works.

[Number5]

1 minute ago, PaulFolk said:

Sure, it's not a complete day off. But it's certainly closer to a day off than someone who is actually participating in the game, and it provides more of a rest.

Someone who does all the pregame routines and then plays a 3-hour baseball game is going to get more tired than someone who does all the pregame routines and then sits on the bench for 3 hours. That's not even debatable. That's just how the human body works.

Yes, it is debatable.  In fact, I happen to think that you are incorrect.  Again, I'm not talking about pitchers and catchers, or players who aren't healthy.  I think I've stated my opinion clearly, so I'm not going to keep repeating myself.  You and others that believe Buck is making a managerial error by not benching his starting position players regularly out of some perceived need to give them "rest" are more than welcome to continue believing that.  I'm fine with the way Buck has been managing the playing time of his players.  It is very obvious that we disagree, and neither of us is going to change his mind.

[Tx Oriole]

On 2/28/2017 at 3:06 PM, terps19 said:

It is very much so a factor.  Playing baseball is more taxing than you might think.  Take into consideration they dont leave the ballpark most nights until 11 pm, get home by 11:30 pm, and then have to be back at the park around 2-3 pm.  Take hitting, fielding, etc.  Then play.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  

So yeah you could sleep until noon every day too, but these guys have families and I am sure most get up by 7 am to see their kids off to school, or so that they are able to spend the mornings with their families.  

Extrapolate that out to a 162 game season and there it is.  I only play baseball during the summer months 2 games a week, and one of those games I catch.  And let me tell you the next day I am pretty beat and wouldnt want do go catch a game that night.  Although I am not a professional athlete... 

I sure wouldn't want their job. 

[PaulFolk]

17 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Yes, it is debatable.  In fact, I happen to think that you are incorrect.  Again, I'm not talking about pitchers and catchers, or players who aren't healthy.  I think I've stated my opinion clearly, so I'm not going to keep repeating myself.  You and others that believe Buck is making a managerial error by not benching his starting position players regularly out of some perceived need to give them "rest" are more than welcome to continue believing that.  I'm fine with the way Buck has been managing the playing time of his players.  It is very obvious that we disagree, and neither of us is going to change his mind.

But what you're saying isn't a matter of opinion. You seem to be arguing against scientific fact. A person who is physically active for 3 hours -- playing the field every inning, getting 4-5 plate appearances -- is going to exert more energy (and thus be more tired) than someone who's just sitting in the dugout and occasionally slapping teammates' butts. Yes, both players participate in all the same pre-game routines, but the latter player then spends the next few hours cooling off while the former player remains in action.

Put it this way-- if you were to ask a professional baseball player whether they get more tired after playing a full game or after not playing at all, how do you think they would respond?

[Frobby]

27 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

I sure wouldn't want their job. 

I'd be pretty happy to have the skill to play a game I love, and earn the kind of paychecks they do.    But no doubt it takes a lot of work, especially these days when players are doing a lot of  conditioning even in the offseason.  

[Number5]

11 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

But what you're saying isn't a matter of opinion. You seem to be arguing against scientific fact. A person who is physically active for 3 hours -- playing the field every inning, getting 4-5 plate appearances -- is going to exert more energy (and thus be more tired) than someone who's just sitting in the dugout and occasionally slapping teammates' butts. Yes, both players participate in all the same pre-game routines, but the latter player then spends the next few hours cooling off while the former player remains in action.

Put it this way-- if you were to ask a professional baseball player whether they get more tired after playing a full game or after not playing at all, how do you think they would respond?

Paul, we disagree.  Personally, I am far more tired when I sit than when I'm active.  Not exhausted, mind you, but active.  Sitting in an airplane takes way more out of me than playing a ballgame.  And it's not close.  You can call it unscientific if you want, and I simply don't care.  We disagree, and it doesn't seem that there is much chance of that changing.  I can tell you for certain that nothing you have said makes me think my own experience is wrong.