Buck gives hints about the roster

[scOtt]

In the end they're the ones that let/left him off their 40-man. Too bad so sad you snooze you lose.

[weams]

9 hours ago, scOtt said:

If he's unable to play in the OF before the end of ST, isn't that the definition of injured?

Yes it is. They are not required to DH him. 

[Aristotelian]

12 hours ago, Frobby said:

Who said that?    But how long you can realistically keep him there is an issue.  

You keep him there until Tavarez or someone tweaks something (but especially Tavarez). Potentially we could just keep alternating the two all season long, then carry them both when rosters expand. Those shoulder injuries tend to nag.

[bobmc]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

You keep him there until Tavarez or someone tweaks something (but especially Tavarez). Potentially we could just keep alternating the two all season long, then carry them both when rosters expand. Those shoulder injuries tend to nag.

Yes and with the Oriole team of orthopedics and neuros, we would surely not want to cause any undue injury.  ;-)

[PaulFolk]

9 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

You keep him there until Tavarez or someone tweaks something (but especially Tavarez). Potentially we could just keep alternating the two all season long, then carry them both when rosters expand. Those shoulder injuries tend to nag.

The DL isn't just a place where you can stash extra players that don't fit your roster, sending them there willy-nilly. Tavarez, for one, isn't injured. Santander, if he is injured, probably won't just be activated and DL'ed on a whim every few weeks.

Imagine the Orioles just had a series of transactions that looked like this:

Orioles place Aneury Tavarez on disabled list; activate Anthony Santander

Orioles place Anthony Santander on disabled list; activate Aneury Tavarez

Orioles place Aneury Tavarez on disabled list; activate Anthony Santander

Orioles place Anthony Santander on disabled list; activate Aneury Tavarez

ad nauseam...

I'm pretty sure that would be a red flag to MLB that the Orioles were trying to game the system.

[mdbdotcom]

5 hours ago, scOtt said:

No doubt either would rather the ML salary. What Moondoggie is arguing (I think) is that Cleveland will argue the DL-ing. The thing we forget... is Cleveland has BETTER medical records, knows exactly what surgery he had. Better than we have. They know the hazards AND the concerns we have. IANAD, nor a lawyer, but Cleveland doesn't have a leg to stand on.

The main thing we forget is that he has to clear waivers before being offered back to Cleveland, and someone would likely claim Santander. 

Also, MLB has asserted that since there is now a 10-day, they will not put up with any more gaming of the DL. The O's aren't the only ones who've done it, and MLB isn't blind to it. They created the 10-day list because teams wanted it. Now, they expect teams to stop putting players on the DL who don't warrant it.

[weams]

http://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2017/03/22/spring-training-primer-blessed-options-ubaldo-jays-davis-hits-first-homer/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

The DL isn't just a place where you can stash extra players that don't fit your roster, sending them there willy-nilly. Tavarez, for one, isn't injured. Santander, if he is injured, probably won't just be activated and DL'ed on a whim every few weeks.

Imagine the Orioles just had a series of transactions that looked like this:

Orioles place Aneury Tavarez on disabled list; activate Anthony Santander

Orioles place Anthony Santander on disabled list; activate Aneury Tavarez

Orioles place Aneury Tavarez on disabled list; activate Anthony Santander

Orioles place Anthony Santander on disabled list; activate Aneury Tavarez

ad nauseam...

I'm pretty sure that would be a red flag to MLB that the Orioles were trying to game the system.

There is a lot more to it than that.  Gentry is injury prone.  Joey was out half of last season with a thumb injury.  Davis has been known to go on the DL with hand and lat  injuries.   Smith's hamstring.   Injuries happen. Some that may normally be played through could be DL stays this year.   

Who is to say that Santander's shoulder does not keep him out until June 10th. Then a 20 day rehab and then on the roster for three months.

[Ohfan67]

I still don't really understand why there is so much noise on the board about Santander. I'm not trying to hate on him and I understand the Orioles system is weak, but the guy was the last pick of the Rule 5 draft (32nd pick). The Orioles selected Tavarez 8 picks ahead of Santander. There were 14 passes (teams didn't pick anybody in 14 out of the 32 picks) before the Orioles selected Santander. He's never played above A ball. For perspective, Sisco is six months younger, spent the year at AA with an end of the year cup of coffee at AAA, and has a significantly higher career minor league OPS. Santander is interesting, but he's not worth a serious roster crunch IMO. 

[Rene88]

14 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I still don't really understand why there is so much noise on the board about Santander. I'm not trying to hate on him and I understand the Orioles system is weak, but the guy was the last pick of the Rule 5 draft (32nd pick). The Orioles selected Tavarez 8 picks ahead of Santander. There were 14 passes (teams didn't pick anybody in 14 out of the 32 picks) before the Orioles selected Santander. He's never played above A ball. For perspective, Sisco is six months younger, spent the year at AA with an end of the year cup of coffee at AAA, and has a significantly higher career minor league OPS. Santander is interesting, but he's not worth a serious roster crunch IMO. 

Fair question-I believe he was the last pick because he just had surgery and nobody thought he would probably any value or be able to stay on the roster all season. IF he was going to be out most of this year...that means the team selecting him has to plan to see if there is room on their 25-man roster this year and next year, quite the difficult task.

The O's however are masters of the Rule 5 zen:)

I politely disagree and think Santander is a keeper. He is a legitimate prospect.

[MDtransplant757]

22 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

Fair question-I believe he was the last pick because he just had surgery and nobody thought he would probably any value or be able to stay on the roster all season. IF he was going to be out most of this year...that means the team selecting him has to plan to see if there is room on their 25-man roster this year and next year, quite the difficult task.

The O's however are masters of the Rule 5 zen:)

I politely disagree and think Santander is a keeper. He is a legitimate prospect.

He is a legit prospect, hence why we picked him. We picked Tavarez to replace Nolan Reimold

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, PaulFolk said:

The DL isn't just a place where you can stash extra players that don't fit your roster, sending them there willy-nilly. Tavarez, for one, isn't injured. Santander, if he is injured, probably won't just be activated and DL'ed on a whim every few weeks.

Imagine the Orioles just had a series of transactions that looked like this:

Orioles place Aneury Tavarez on disabled list; activate Anthony Santander

Orioles place Anthony Santander on disabled list; activate Aneury Tavarez

Orioles place Aneury Tavarez on disabled list; activate Anthony Santander

Orioles place Anthony Santander on disabled list; activate Aneury Tavarez

ad nauseam...

I'm pretty sure that would be a red flag to MLB that the Orioles were trying to game the system.

That is exactly what I am imagining. Of course there will have to be some reality to the injuries, and I am sure other players will be involved, but there is some gamesmanship to it. I do think DD will find a way to keep players that we want and any nick that Adam Jones might be expected to play through will land either of these guys on the DL with the longest possible rehab "just in case".

[Ohfan67]

3 hours ago, Rene88 said:

The O's however are masters of the Rule 5 zen:)

I politely disagree and think Santander is a keeper. He is a legitimate prospect.

They use it a lot. That's not the same as being masters. And I don't think they are masters of it. It's actually pretty easy to argue that the Orioles have wasted roster spots on most of DD's picks. Flaherty has been the most useful and the best you can say about him that he is versatile enough with the glove to not kill you. He's hit a few fun homers, but overall he's been atrocious at the plate. McFarland ate  some innings every now and then. They have both been mediocre to ok at their jobs with McFarland really clogging the roster at times. The jury is still out on Rickard. Certainly no rule 5 addition has been a big talent injection for the Orioles. 

 

I agree that Santander is a real prospect. But I think he's much less likely to succeed than many of you seem to think. He's had one good year of A ball and two spring training home runs for the Orioles. I guess I'm seeing the half of the glass that is empty. 

 

And again, the Orioles selected Tavarez eight picks ahead of Santander. I think that's a clear indication of who they think has a better chance to make it through the process. 

[wildcard]

The O's could go with 11 pitchers and 14 position players until May 3rd. Tillman may be available  by that time.

11 pitchers including 4 starters: Gausman, Bundy, Jimenez and Miley.

 7 relievers: Britton, O'Day, Brach, Givens, Hart, Nuno and a 7th reliever wth options.

14 position players: Davis, Schoop, Hardy, Manny, Flaherty, Castillo, Joesph, Trumbo, Jones, Kim, Smith, Rickard, Gentry and Tavarez

Mancini optioned,  Santander DL'd, DFA Drake (hoping to get him through waivers and outrighed to Norfolk)

On March 15th and March 22nd when a 5th starter is needed, the O's option the 7th reliever, promote a starter from Norfolk for a day..  After the game they option the 5th starter and call up another reliever.  They have the pitchers with options to do this Including Wright, Lee, Wilson, Aquino, Ynoa, Verrett and others.

This kicks the can down the road until May 3rd.  A lot can happen in a month.

[Drifter]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

That is exactly what I am imagining. Of course there will have to be some reality to the injuries, and I am sure other players will be involved, but there is some gamesmanship to it. I do think DD will find a way to keep players that we want and any nick that Adam Jones might be expected to play through will land either of these guys on the DL with the longest possible rehab "just in case".

A young, switch hitting power guy sounds like a small risk.. but to what extent? Why would the O's try this route? I believe he had R shoulder surgery last year, and now its his R elbow? I'm hoping he gets back on the field so the brass can get a better look at him.

Instead of playing games, if the O's are really truly interested and intrigued... but don't want to risk the roster spot, can't they just risk running him through waivers? We selected him in round 2.. so maybe there aren't many teams THAT would be interested (possibly), since they've already set their rosters (assumption). If he clears waivers, couldn't the O's then try to trade or bargain a buyout from the Indians?