How has Gausman gotten this screwed up?

[JohnD]

He has never really mastered secondary pitches.  And I was also expecting another step forward this year.  Not five steps back.

Time to start using the B word? (BUST)

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, JohnD said:

He has never really mastered secondary pitches.  And I was also expecting another step forward this year.  Not five steps back.

Time to start using the B word? (BUST)

No.  There are so many actual busts out there that someone like Gausman doesn't qualify.  A bust would be Billy Rowell or Matt Hobgood.

[sportsfan8703]

If we had any type of SP depth Gausman would be in the pen right now.  Unfortunately 3/5 of the situation is in shambles.  We not only don't have SP at the MLB level, we don't have SP in the minors either.  

[FanSince88]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

Of all the disappointments this so far year -- and there have been many -- to me, Kevin Gausman is by far the biggest.    There doesn't seem to be anything physically wrong with him, and he should be building on his very solid 2016, and suddenly, he can't get anybody out.     And today -- talk about coming up small on a day when the team really needed him!

So what the hell has happened to this guy?

My sentiments exactly.  I didn't necessarily see Gausman as an ace, but I thought he had a high floor.  He had usually shown an ability to get outs and keep the ball in the ballpark in the MLB in the past.  Certainly had a better MLB track record than Arrieta or Daniel Cabrera, and he's still extremely young.  All that's out the window now, and it raises the question of whether he's going to be a total bust from here on out.  Never thought that was a possibility, always figured he'd be a solid -- if not dominant -- part of the rotation for several years.  Now all of that is thrown into question.  The organization seems just as blindsided by this as I am.  

[Sessh]

Gausman has shown flashes of dominance since he's been in the majors, but has never been able to sustain it. For whatever reason, he has not improved at all. His offspeed pitches are still inadequate and inconsistent. This year, his fastball isn't moving as much, his changeup isn't as effective and his slider has never been an effective pitch. Why he isn't being encouraged and stimulated to improve is a complete mystery. There is no excuse for his slider being the same mountain of horse flop it was in 2013, none at all. It's just more fuel on the fire for the opinion that this organization has no idea how to develop talent. Gausman, by all means, should be better than he is now and it was only a matter of time before it all caught up to him. He has never really taken a step forward without also taking a step back. If he ends up in another organization, I firmly believe he will be Arrieta part II.

[FanSince88]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

At this point I'd see what we could get for him.  Sure, it's selling low but there's still some upside there.  Arrieta situation. 

No.  Gausman has an actual track record in the MLB which Arrieta never really had.  If all else fails, we can try him in the bullpen, and in the end maybe all he turns out to be is a decent reliever.  It would be a terrible waste of talent, but if he can't get it together as a starter then we'll have live with it.  Still beats selling him to another team for nothing and then watching him somehow become an ace somewhere else, possibly one of our rivals.  You almost want to keep him away from other teams so they can't use him against you as much as you want to keep him for his merits as an Oriole.  

[FanSince88]

2 minutes ago, Sessh said:

 If he ends up in another organization, I firmly believe he will be Arrieta part II.

Which is why we can't afford to lose him.  We're lucky Arrieta stayed in the NL and wasn't dealt back into our division.  If phantom injuries to keep him on the DL until his contract is what it takes, then fine.  Can't afford to let the Yanks or Bosox or TB get their hands on him and turn him into their ace.  

[sportsfan8703]

Gausman is pretty much the same guy that he was when he was drafted.  We rushed the heck out of him because we needed him as a BP arm, and he pitched well.  He even pitched in the Detroit playoff series.  But then we never let him develop.  Now he's lost his command and has no third pitch.  He's getting hammered.  

Still with all his struggles he's our 3rd best SP.  So we have to keep trotting him out there.  Seems like we've had a bunch of guys with big arms that have made it to the show but we can't do that last bit of developing them to get them to be successful MLB'ers.  Arrieta, Gausman, Wright, Miranda, Scott.  

Who have we developed?  It might be time to just clean house and bring in a new minor league pitching coordinator and all new pitching coaches.  

[oriolediehard]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

Of all the disappointments this so far year -- and there have been many -- to me, Kevin Gausman is by far the biggest.    There doesn't seem to be anything physically wrong with him, and he should be building on his very solid 2016, and suddenly, he can't get anybody out.     And today -- talk about coming up small on a day when the team really needed him!

So what the hell has happened to this guy?

Last year's Dave Wallace and Don Chiti pitching coaches were better and are missed.   Per report Brady Anderson caused them to leave, I don' t remember where I read it, sorry I don't have a link.  It was months ago.

[sportsfan8703]

5 minutes ago, oriolediehard said:

Last year's Dave Wallace and Don Chiti pitching coaches were better and are missed.   Per report Brady Anderson caused them to leave, I don' t remember where I read it, sorry I don't have a link.  It was months ago.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/brady-andersons-role-with-orioles-a-topic-of-debate-032017

“I like Brady. Everybody likes Brady,” former pitching coach Dave Wallace said. “But one of the problems is, when you have a role in an organization where you have total autonomy and really no accountability, that’s tough.”

"Wallace, 70, and bullpen coach Dom Chiti, 57, both left Showalter’s staff after three years at the end of last season, in part due to what Wallace described as Anderson’s rising influence and interference.

Wallace said that he had planned to retire from major-league coaching, but that Anderson was part of the reason he resisted overtures to remain with the Orioles in a player-development role.

Chiti said, “I’m not going to deny that Brady was part of why I left,” but declined further comment.

Both Wallace and Chiti signed two-year contracts to return to the Braves, for whom each had worked just before joining the Orioles. Chiti became the Braves’ director of pitching, Wallace a special assistant who will focus on pitching."

 

[eddie83]

4 minutes ago, oriolediehard said:

Last year's Dave Wallace and Don Chiti pitching coaches were better and are missed.   Per report Brady Anderson caused them to leave, I don' t remember where I read it, sorry I don't have a link.  It was months ago.

Did this years coaches screw up Bundy? Did they cause Tillman, Britton and O'Day to have injuries?

[FanSince88]

22 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Still with all his struggles he's our 3rd best SP.  

Exhibit A in why we won't make the playoffs this year.

[FanSince88]

I'm not ready to pin this all on the pitching coaches.  I think that lets Gausman off the hook.  The buck stops with Kevin and he's a grown-ass man.  He has to find a way to be better and stop hurting his team. 

[sportsfan8703]

7 minutes ago, FanSince88 said:

Exhibit A in why we won't make the playoffs this year.

 

3 minutes ago, FanSince88 said:

I'm not ready to pin this all on the pitching coaches.  I think that lets Gausman off the hook.  The buck stops with Kevin and he's a grown-ass man.  He has to find a way to be better and stop hurting his team. 

Exactly.  It's on the players.  Gausman isn't the B word, he's the S word.  Soft.  Sounds like Wright is too.  After rereading that article by Rosenthal it sounds like Brady is coddling these guys and that Wallace and Chiti were telling them what they needed to do.  

I think Wright and Gausman could both be dominant relievers.  It's obvious that they aren't savy enough to have any consistency as SP's.  Who the heck is going to start for us?  

[Tbone83]

44 minutes ago, FanSince88 said:

 Gausman has an actual track record in the MLB which Arrieta never really had.  

Does he really though? He has had some nice stretches but I don't think Gausman has ever had enough sustained success to say he has a positive track record. I remember Jake having a few nice stretches too, but, like Kevin, the bad kept coming back. Gausman has slightly better numbers overall than Jake (as an Oriole) but I think the two are quite comparable.