TT: The only question left for Angelos

[Sessh]

16 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You are spoiled.  Absolutely 100% spoiled.  5 years of winning has spoiled you. You think its easy to build a winning team.  Well, think again.  Its not.

Since 1983 the O's have been in the playoff 5 times.  Two in 1996-1997 and three of the last 5 year.   The other 27 years they did not make the playoffs  27 is a big number.  You have forgotten or at least it seems you have forgotten what it i like to lose year after year after year.

Buck and Dan changed all that.

All this crying about he farm system is so much bunk.   The O's  have produced guys from their farm system over the years.   They traded some and the kept some.   its does matter if their farm system wins.  It matters what the Orioles major league team does.   But the farm system is probably in better shape right now then it has been in years.   

Next year Hays and Mullins are probably with the O's at some point.  Maybe Scott.   If Sisco can pick up his defense he may make the majors at some point or Wynn.   Long looks good.   There are more in the lower minors that will come in years after that.   The O's will sell off a few guys at the deadline and this off season to add more minor leaguer.  But don't expect the O's to keep them all because the O's plan is probably to reload not to rebuild slowly.

You are wrong. Absolutely 100% wrong. Five years of winning has got you believing that the ONLY people alive capable of bringing winning baseball to Baltimore are Buck and Dan. Well, think again, they're not. Of course it's not "easy" to build a winning team which makes Buck's absolutely pathetic decision making last year even more damning. He robbed that team all by himself of what would have likely been at least three more innings to win that game. Building a winning team means nothing if the manager is going to piss it away with bad decision making. Last year and in 1995, same thing. SAME thing. He doesn't learn and I don't want any manager capable of doing that not once, but TWICE anywhere near the managing chair when I build a team capable of getting into the postseason. No way. Maybe you do, I don't. There's other fish in the sea as they say. The fact that you speak of Buck and Dan as the only ones capable of doing good things in Baltimore is what's "so much bunk". It's time to move on. They both had their chances, the window is closed and now, it's time to tear it down and try to build it again and if that doesn't happen soon enough, we WILL be losing year after year again and it will be a long time.

As for your comment about the farm system, you take the concept of overvaluing your own prospects to a new level. The system now is better than when we had Machado, Schoop, Bundy, Gausman, Britton and whoever else in the system or just coming up? The system right NOW is better than that? You've truly gone off the deep end if you really believe that IMO. The gig is up. It's time to build again. It's time to get back into the international market. It's time for a lot of things, but mindlessly worshipping Buck as if no one else in existence was capable of doing as good or better than him is scared talk. Both Buck and DD can be replaced.

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, Sessh said:

You are wrong. Absolutely 100% wrong. Five years of winning has got you believing that the ONLY people alive capable of bringing winning baseball to Baltimore are Buck and Dan. Well, think again, they're not. Of course it's not "easy" to build a winning team which makes Buck's absolutely pathetic decision making last year even more damning. He robbed that team all by himself of what would have likely been at least three more innings to win that game. Building a winning team means nothing if the manager is going to piss it away with bad decision making. Last year and in 1995, same thing. SAME thing. He doesn't learn and I don't want any manager capable of doing that not once, but TWICE anywhere near the managing chair when I build a team capable of getting into the postseason. No way. Maybe you do, I don't. There's other fish in the sea as they say. The fact that you speak of Buck and Dan as the only ones capable of doing good things in Baltimore is what's "so much bunk". It's time to move on. They both had their chances, the window is closed and now, it's time to tear it down and try to build it again and if that doesn't happen soon enough, we WILL be losing year after year again and it will be a long time.

As for your comment about the farm system, you take the concept of overvaluing your own prospects to a new level. The system now is better than when we had Machado, Schoop, Bundy, Gausman, Britton and whoever else in the system or just coming up? The system right NOW is better than that? You've truly gone off the deep end if you really believe that IMO. The gig is up. It's time to build again. It's time to get back into the international market. It's time for a lot of things, but mindlessly worshipping Buck as if no one else in existence was capable of doing as good or better than him is scared talk. Both Buck and DD can be replaced.

Peter is not easy to work for.   Gillick couldn't and he was a pro.   Smart assistant  GM with a winning team Frank Wren couldn't.  Beattie couldn't.  Jim Duquette couldn't. Flanagan kill himself trying but he couldn't.  I am still crying about that one.  McPhail had won World Series twice but couldn't even put a winning team on the field under Peter.

Buck and Dan have put a playoff team the field 3 times working for Peter.   Its a proven skill that no one either has.  And I will bet you the Buck is the manager for the O's next year.

[tntoriole]

I would love to see the Orioles hire Kim Ng as the first woman GM.  Jason Mcleod from the Cubs would be great-he is an outstanding talent evaluator.  JJ Picollo assistant GM of the Royals or Doug Harris, Rizzo's assistant with Nats...all would be outstanding. 

Brady Anderson, in my opinion, would be a disaster. 

[Tx Oriole]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Oh My!!!  Calling for the firing of Buck!   What planet do you live on?

I am betting that Buck stays as long as he wants whether that is under Peter or John.  He turned this franchise around.  He has won more games over the last 5 years than any other AL manager.   And in many cases with less talent.  So lets get this out of the way.  Buck Stays.   Even if the GM changes.  Buck Stays.

So on Dan, its easy to focus on the negatives.  Bad trades.  Bad signing.  But who has done better?   Name him?  Then tell if he is available.   Probably not.   And the amazing thing is that Dan has been successful  working for Peter.  No easy task.  Didn't you get tired on watching other O's GM fail.    Dan has succeeded.   

Do you really blame Dan for Gausman regression?   Do you blame him for Tillman's injury?  I don't.   Bundy is progressing year over year.   Sure Dan has to take the blame for Miley and Jimenez.  But he gets the credit for Chen and Gonzalez.   

Brady hasn't managed anything and he should not be the  next in line for the O's GM spot.   No rookie GMs.  Peter is too hard to work for to do that.

And the idea that Peter is going fire Dan, pay for him 2018 and hire another GM is foriegn territory.  

What is apparently happening now is what should happen.   Britton is on the block.   Hopefully to bring back some starting talent.  Brach and O'Day are also mentioned.   Manny is not and that is because if the O's want to take a run at signing him this off season, Buck has to be signed first.  And Buck is a little busy at the moment.  Smith, Kim Castillo can all be FA in October and if the O's can get anything for them they should.  That appears to be the plan and that is what should be the plan for now.

Kind of wild calling for Buck dismissal considering what he has done for the O's and what he can still do.

 

 

 

 

That's not right though. The new GM should have the right to hire the manager he wants. IMO. What if the new  GM and Buck don't get a long with each other? That would or could hurt the team. 

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

That's not right though. The new GM should have the right to hire the manager he wants. IMO. What if the new  GM and Buck don't get a long with each other? That would or could hurt the team. 

1) We don't know that Dan is going anywhere.  He is under contract next year.

2) Buck was already managing the O's when Dan was hire.  So there is a history of the O's hiring the GM and telling him/her that they have to work with Buck.

3) I will bet if they do change GMs that Buck has more experience then anyone they hire.

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, SteveA said:

Honestly I don't even know how "meddling" Peter is anymore.   We hear so much talk on here about what he allows and what he doesn't, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's just talk.   He may have had a hand in the Davis deal, but I doubt he had anything to do with Trumbo, Ubaldo, etc.   Other than approving a payroll budget.   The no-international-signing may have come from him, but maybe it doesn't.   Maybe it's just indirect, in that he doesn't want to pay a lot of people to scout those areas.   I've heard we have the fewest scouts on payroll of any team, dont' know if that's true.

Reading these threads there's just so much talk that makes people think PGA is pulling strings or intimately involved in the running of the team, and I just tend to doubt it.   I'll bet his kids have far more impact on day to day decisions than he does at this point.

I read that the Davis deal was all on Angelos. I questioned at the time why wasn't the 161 million used on the team? Was told that money is set aside for Davis. 

[Richmond Bird 9]

27 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

I would love to see the Orioles hire Kim Ng as the first woman GM.  Jason Mcleod from the Cubs would be great-he is an outstanding talent evaluator.  JJ Picollo assistant GM of the Royals or Doug Harris, Rizzo's assistant with Nats...all would be outstanding. 

Brady Anderson, in my opinion, would be a disaster. 

I too like Kim Ng. I would keep Brandy as a do all V.P.

[tntoriole]

12 minutes ago, Richmond Bird 9 said:

I too like Kim Ng. I would keep Brandy as a do all V.P.

I would keep Brandy too..because she is a fine girl. 

 

 

[Tx Oriole]

46 minutes ago, wildcard said:

1) We don't know that Dan is going anywhere.  He is under contract next year.

2) Buck was already managing the O's when Dan was hire.  So there is a history of the O's hiring the GM and telling him/her that they have to work with Buck.

3) I will bet if they do change GMs that Buck has more experience then anyone they hire.

I couldn't remember I was thinking they came in the same year. 

[eddie83]

Angelos has had trust issues with his GM's and managers. I get the impression he loves Buck. Buck is here as long as he wants to be. With Dan I really don't know. My guy says he stays until his contract is up and Brady takes over.  

[Rich Mac]

3 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

I often hear this refrain as the reason the Orioles have been the best team during that time frame. The Orioles haven't won the big games under Buck.

Buck has done great job of changing the culture of the Orioles clubhouse. He put vets on notice when he arrived that there are guys at AAA waiting for the opportunity to take your job, you better take it seriously. But after that, it's been loyalty to veterans, deserved or not. 

I also thought Buck got a raw deal with the Yankees and D-backs, but no one can make that case in his time with the Orioles. By the time his current contract is up he will have been in Baltimore for eight years.

Buck had had plenty of time, now it's time to move on.

 

Your memory must suck... 

If the moon, the sun and the stars hadn't aligned in some perfect feng shui moment for the Royals, Buck would likely have won the world series for us. There wasn't a manager on this planet that would have stopped that moment from happening for them.

[Rich Mac]

1 hour ago, Sessh said:

You are wrong. Absolutely 100% wrong. Five years of winning has got you believing that the ONLY people alive capable of bringing winning baseball to Baltimore are Buck and Dan. Well, think again, they're not. Of course it's not "easy" to build a winning team which makes Buck's absolutely pathetic decision making last year even more damning. He robbed that team all by himself of what would have likely been at least three more innings to win that game. Building a winning team means nothing if the manager is going to piss it away with bad decision making. Last year and in 1995, same thing. SAME thing. He doesn't learn and I don't want any manager capable of doing that not once, but TWICE anywhere near the managing chair when I build a team capable of getting into the postseason. No way. Maybe you do, I don't. There's other fish in the sea as they say. The fact that you speak of Buck and Dan as the only ones capable of doing good things in Baltimore is what's "so much bunk". It's time to move on. They both had their chances, the window is closed and now, it's time to tear it down and try to build it again and if that doesn't happen soon enough, we WILL be losing year after year again and it will be a long time.

As for your comment about the farm system, you take the concept of overvaluing your own prospects to a new level. The system now is better than when we had Machado, Schoop, Bundy, Gausman, Britton and whoever else in the system or just coming up? The system right NOW is better than that? You've truly gone off the deep end if you really believe that IMO. The gig is up. It's time to build again. It's time to get back into the international market. It's time for a lot of things, but mindlessly worshipping Buck as if no one else in existence was capable of doing as good or better than him is scared talk. Both Buck and DD can be replaced.

You probably think that Earl pissed away '69, '71 and '77 too - and don't even get started about that debacle at the end of the '82 season. How did he even manage to win in '70? If we would have kicked him to the curb like we should have, we could have had a young Tony La Russa at the helm.

Please read this with the utmost of sarcasm.

[ChuckS]

It's pretty clear they are showcasing Brach over Britton.

I'm not sure if that's because they want to limit Britton's exposure not to diminish his value even further or if it's more about maximizing Brach's trade value.  

Maybe Buck just wants to work Britton back into the closer rule, but that seems an odd thing to do to a guy who has gone close to two full seasons without blowing a save. 

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

It's pretty clear they are showcasing Brach over Britton.

I'm not sure if that's because they want to limit Britton's exposure not to diminish his value even further or if it's more about maximizing Brach's trade value.  

Maybe Buck just wants to work Britton back into the closer rule, but that seems an odd thing to do to a guy who has gone close to two full seasons without blowing a save. 

Britton has not pitched back to back games since he came off the DL.   He pitched last night.  That is why Brach closed tonight.

[ChuckS]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Britton has not pitched back to back games since he came off the DL.   He pitched last night.  That is why Brach closed tonight.

Has Britton closed a game since he's been back?