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Anyone else open to the idea of extending Manny?

Grt 2BA FL Gator

By Grt 2BA FL Gator
in Orioles Talk

Is anyone else open to us paying for Manny?   

69 members have voted

  1. 1. Extending Manny

    • Yes, he is a future HOF with many productive years left, and possibly the best 3B of all time
      39
    • No, his contract will limit us for years to come
      5
    • No, we have more needs than just Manny, it's worth the risk to get multiple prospects back
      9
    • No, and part of why I say no is we have already missed the window to extend him. I don't expect us to make a real offer and I hope we can at least get something back for him
      16

This poll is closed to new votes


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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, jtschrei said:

In my opinion, the window to extend ended two years ago. Suddenly, the window seems slightly open because Manny is having such a bad year. That said, he's still at 2.1 WAR. I could easily see him finishing at over 4 WAR this season.

Even so, I can't see us extending Manny now because we know PA doesn't do "opt-out" clauses and I'm pretty sure Manny is going to want an opt-out clause. 

That policy shouldn't apply to Manny.     Just be sure the option is 3-4 years away and the deal is a bit backloaded.    

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

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I ask him the following question:  

Lets assume you want to join the ranks of HOF Orioles:  Frank Brooks Jim Earl Cal and Eddie...and let's assume we are going to win a World Series together, what would it take to make you an Oriole for life?

Then I'd hand him a check so he could write his answer.  

Ridiculous I know, but you can let Jim Johnson go and create Zack Britton.  You can let Zack Britton go and be confident you have arms that can do his job.  You can even miss by letting Nelson Cruz get away.  Or by bidding against yourself for Chris Davis  

But Manny Machado is a once in a generation player and the best we have seen in a long long time.  The pain of seeing him in another uniform will be immense and I don't know that I can bear it.  It's not my money, but I'd make it hard for him to leave and let him know that if we can't agree Im gonna move him in the off season  

 

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webbrick2010 Hangout Veteran Council

webbrick2010

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, foxfield said:

I ask him the following question:  

Lets assume you want to join the ranks of HOF Orioles:  Frank Brooks Jim Earl Cal and Eddie...and let's assume we are going to win a World Series together, what would it take to make you an Oriole for life?

Then I'd hand him a check so he could write his answer.  

Ridiculous I know, but you can let Jim Johnson go and create Zack Britton.  You can let Zack Britton go and be confident you have arms that can do his job.  You can even miss by letting Nelson Cruz get away.  Or by bidding against yourself for Chris Davis  

But Manny Machado is a once in a generation player and the best we have seen in a long long time.  The pain of seeing him in another uniform will be immense and I don't know that I can bear it.  It's not my money, but I'd make it hard for him to leave and let him know that if we can't agree Im gonna move him in the off season  

 

We are talking about the guy that is 18th out of 23 qualifying ML third basemen in OPS?

I am so tired of the Manny HOF, generational talent talk when it just isn't yet been backed up with numbers. You guys need to watch more MLB games and marvel at Nolan Arenado or Jose Ramirez, or Anthony Rendon, or Kris Bryant, or Miguel Sano or the other 12 third baseman that have been better hitters this year.

Doesn't a generational talent at least have to be in the top 10 of the present class of third basemen???

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Grt 2BA FL Gator said:

Context for poll:

I have usually been on the trade Manny train. I may be caught in emotion at current of the incredible plays he made today, but the guy plays 3B like no one else and I will miss him if/when he goes. 

It made me think, could it be worth it to try to build around him? We have tons of money coming off the books 2018 and if ever there was someone to give a big contract it would be home grown, Manny Machado who has many years of production left. 

I voted to extend him with this caveat. That don't spend all their money on Manny.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

We are talking about the guy that is 18th out of 23 qualifying ML third basemen in OPS?

I am so tired of the Manny HOF, generational talent talk when it just isn't yet been backed up with numbers. You guys need to watch more MLB games and marvel at Nolan Arenado or Jose Ramirez, or Anthony Rendon, or Kris Bryant, or Miguel Sano or the other 12 third baseman that have been better hitters this year.

Doesn't a generational talent at least have to be in the top 10 of the present class of third basemen???

Age     rWAR    fWAR

19       1.6        1.3

20       6.7        6.2

21       2.4        2.3

22       5.7        6.8

23       6.7        6.5

How is that not backing it up with numbers?

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

We are talking about the guy that is 18th out of 23 qualifying ML third basemen in OPS?

I am so tired of the Manny HOF, generational talent talk when it just isn't yet been backed up with numbers. You guys need to watch more MLB games and marvel at Nolan Arenado or Jose Ramirez, or Anthony Rendon, or Kris Bryant, or Miguel Sano or the other 12 third baseman that have been better hitters this year.

Doesn't a generational talent at least have to be in the top 10 of the present class of third basemen???

He unequivocally is.

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webbrick2010 Hangout Veteran Council

webbrick2010

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Age     rWAR    fWAR

19       1.6        1.3

20       6.7        6.2

21       2.4        2.3

22       5.7        6.8

23       6.7        6.5

How is that not backing it up with numbers?

.239/.309/.432/.741

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epic Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

epic

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

.239/.309/.432/.741

So we just ignore the previous 4 years and his defense? Got it.

Or we can dig a little deeper:

  • His walk rate is at the second highest mark in his career at 9.4% which is up 2.5 percentage points from last year. Previous high was 9.8% in 2015.
  • His K rate is up to 19.1% this year after 17.2% in 2016 and 15.6% in 2015. 19.2% is still his high from 2014. So he's walking more but also striking out more.
  • His hard hit % is he highest it's been in his career and it's not even close. He's at 40.7% this season with the previous 4 seasons being 35.4%, 33.1% and 29.3% respectively. His 2017 mark puts him at #21 in all of MLB, #11 in the AL and #4 among all 3B.
  • His BABIP is at .253 this season. Combined with his hard hit % and the eye test it's not hard to draw the conclusion that he's had some bad luck this year.
  • So far this season he's at 7 Defensive Runs Saved. He ended up with 13 and 14 DRS the previous 2 seasons. So he's projected to come in near where he's been the past couple years defensively. Personally, I thought he got a little lazy the first 4-6 weeks of the season but it feels like he's fully back to the level we're used to.

I think those numbers make a solid argument that he's had some bad luck this season. There's no doubt that he's having an off year though. I didn't look up other batted ball data but my eyes tell me he's looking to pull the ball more this year and that's caused him to be vulnerable to the breaking ball low and away. If he cleans up a few things in the second half, which we all know he's capable of doing, he will end up with very respectable numbers but year's end.

And if we're only going to judge by a slash line, let's not forget who put up .243/.373/.441/.814 last year and .273/.344/.423/768 in 2014.

I'm not for giving Manny a blank check but let's not act like he's not going to get a ton of money on his next deal.

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Grt 2BA FL Gator All-Star

Grt 2BA FL Gator

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57 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

I thought "being open" to the idea would be a pretty obvious "YES".

I've actually learned quite a lot from this poll. A majority of fans (not a huge sample, but not nothing) want to see us extend him and even build around him. 

I was under the impression that most thought he would cash strap us and we need the talent he could bring back in a trade. 

But, it seems that most of the clamoring for a trade come from distrust of the organization to pony up or distrust that Manny wants to stay here, so therefore we should move on from him and make sure we get at least something back. 

Good learnings, thank you all. I hope we can somehow get this done and he can stay an Oriole. 

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