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Deadwood Fan

By Deadwood Fan
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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

It matters if folks say that the O's needed Norris.  They didn't.  The team was good enough without him.  Maybe if he hadn't been terrible in 2015 they make the playoffs?

He wasn't great in 2014, he was above average.

In 2013 the Red Sox won the WS and won 97 games. Tampa went 92-71 and won the second WC. Orioles and Yankees tied at 85 wins. 

So a GM is suppose to know exactly how many wins it will take to win a division prior to the season? A player gets less credit because his team wins a division by a wide margin? That makes no sense. 

Now the 2015 season as you point out was awful. 

I just don't think Bud Norris was a nothing here, that is all. 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

In 2013 the Red Sox won the WS and won 97 games. Tampa went 92-71 and won the second WC. Orioles and Yankees tied at 85 wins. 

So a GM is suppose to know exactly how many wins it will take to win a division prior to the season? A player gets less credit because his team wins a division by a wide margin? That makes no sense. 

Now the 2015 season as you point out was awful. 

I just don't think Bud Norris was a nothing here, that is all. 

It would be an exaggeration to say Norris was a nothing here.  He was disappointing overall, considering what we gave up to get him.

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FlipTheBird All-Star

FlipTheBird

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

In 2013 the Red Sox won the WS and won 97 games. Tampa went 92-71 and won the second WC. Orioles and Yankees tied at 85 wins. 

So a GM is suppose to know exactly how many wins it will take to win a division prior to the season? A player gets less credit because his team wins a division by a wide margin? That makes no sense. 

Now the 2015 season as you point out was awful. 

I just don't think Bud Norris was a nothing here, that is all. 

You're arguing with folks who are essentially just anti-trading prospects, more or less ever. And love using hindsight. Not a lot of ground to made up, here.

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spiritof66 Hangout Grand Counsel

spiritof66

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On 8/21/2017 at 0:14 AM, OriolesMagic83 said:

I think you are overestimating Angelos' baseball IQ,  He no doubt has/had a brilliant legal mind, but he seems to be in a special ed class for baseball knowledge.  No interest in international talent (over 1/3 of MLB players and top 8 prospects), emphasis on HR over complete baseball players, no working plan to develop starting pitchers, etc.  don't show he has much baseball intelligence.  I think that if Angelos fires DD, he is replaced by Brady. 

From  everything I can tell, Angelos is a baseball ignoramus, with no more -- and probably less -- knowledge and acumen than serious, thoughtful fans.

Why does anyone think he "has/had a brilliant legal mind?" Because he made a huge amount of money as a lawyer? The two really shouldn't be assumed to go together, and I know nothing about Angelos' legal career that bespeaks "a brilliant legal kind." Power and influence with the legislature and the courts? Sure. But a brilliant legal mind? Not that I'm aware of.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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8 hours ago, FlipTheBird said:

You're arguing with folks who are essentially just anti-trading prospects, more or less ever. And love using hindsight. Not a lot of ground to made up, here.

Hindsight?

Go dig up the Norris thread.  Ain't no hindsight going on here.

I will say the breaking point for me on the Norris trade wasn't Hader it was the first round pick on top of Hoes and Hader.

 

 

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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8 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

From  everything I can tell, Angelos is a baseball ignoramus, with no more -- and probably less -- knowledge and acumen than serious, thoughtful fans.

Why does anyone think he "has/had a brilliant legal mind?" Because he made a huge amount of money as a lawyer? The two really shouldn't be assumed to go together, and I know nothing about Angelos' legal career that bespeaks "a brilliant legal kind." Power and influence with the legislature and the courts? Sure. But a brilliant legal mind? Not that I'm aware of.

  I certainly would not know if he has "a brilliant legal mind" or not.   But Mr. Angelos has certainly been successful and is apparently well respected in the legal and business and civic community in Baltimore and Maryland.   

"The Daily Record, a law, government and business publication announced its 17th year of winners of awards recognizing "members of the statewide legal community for their outstanding work."  Winners were selected by a panel of legal and business leaders and are divided into three categories: Leadership in Law; Generation J.D., which honors up-and-coming legal professionals; and the Lifetime Achievement Award, which recognizes legal professionals with exemplary careers.

Winners were selected by a panel of legal and business leaders and are divided into three categories: Leadership in Law; Generation J.D., which honors up-and-coming legal professionals; and the Lifetime Achievement Award, which recognizes legal professionals with exemplary careers."

 

2017 Lifetime Achievement Honorees:

Peter Angelos, president, managing principal, Law Office of Peter G. Angelos

Hon. John Debelius, judge, Circuit Court for Montgomery County

Daniel F. Goldstein, founding partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP

Hon. Glenn T. Harrell Jr., judge, Court of Appeals of Maryland

Thomas E. Lynch III, principal, Miles & Stockbridge, PC

Mayda Colon Tsaknis, partner, Colon Tsaknis Law Office

The Daily Record,   March 16, 2017

 

Obviously, none of this really means much as it relates to whether or not he has a  "brilliant legal mind".  It could just be all smoke and mirrors and politics, business back scratching and PR.   And it really is beside the point here anyway which is concerned only with his baseball acumen and stewardship of our most precious resource, the Os.  And he certainly is not very skilled at that, imho.  

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spiritof66 Hangout Grand Counsel

spiritof66

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51 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

  And it really is beside the point here anyway which is concerned only with his baseball acumen and stewardship of our most precious resource, the Os.  And he certainly is not very skilled at that, imho.  

No disagreement at all there -- and my guess it is one of the few things that there's unanimity on, or pretty close to it.

I do think that there are some out there with misconceptions about Angelos' legal career and acumen, and I thought I would mention it.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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4 minutes ago, birdman333 said:

Tonight's game serves as another reminder of how Duquette wouldn't give Nelson Cruz a 4th year but had no problems giving Chris Davis and Darren O'Day extra year/s on their deals to prevent them from leaving.

Wrong decision on all 3 by Duquette...

Now that is just straight up being untruthful.  It is a well established fact that ownership mandated the Davis deal.

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spiritof66 Hangout Grand Counsel

spiritof66

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33 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Now that is just straight up being untruthful.  It is a well established fact that ownership mandated the Davis deal.

And, while the situation with O'Day and Trumbo is less clear, Brady says he was involved in those negotiations, suggesting to me that the decisions to sign them came  down from Angelos, at least in part. 

 

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

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Posted
1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Now that is just straight up being untruthful.  It is a well established fact that ownership mandated the Davis deal.

 

35 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

And, while the situation with O'Day and Trumbo is less clear, Brady says he was involved in those negotiations, suggesting to me that the decisions to sign them came  down from Angelos, at least in part. 

 

Read these two things again. 

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Cumberbundy Hangout Veteran Council

Cumberbundy

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2 hours ago, birdman333 said:

Tonight's game serves as another reminder of how Duquette wouldn't give Nelson Cruz a 4th year but had no problems giving Chris Davis and Darren O'Day extra year/s on their deals to prevent them from leaving.

Wrong decision on all 3 by Duquette...

The fact that nobody wanted Cruz resulted in some of the most enjoyable baseball I've seen in a long time. If anyone else wanted him we'd have missed on that magical season & Ryan Mountcastle. We have had some good luck, though not as much as the O's deserve.

 

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Norfolk orioles Hangout Grand Counsel

Norfolk orioles

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If I was Dan Duquette I would resign before I let the owner of the team dictate contacts to me.

 

At that point you are nothing more than a figurehead and you are letting an owner determine your current legacy and your potential future employment.

Given all of Duquette's other horrible signings, failures to re-sign  (O'day but not Miller, Trumbo but not Cruz?), trades (too many to list), total depletion of our farm system and complete inability to extend any of our young players, he's done absolutely NOTHING to deserve to keep his job.

Not even sure how this is up for debate. Buck can go with him at this point because our rotation is a total joke and at some point that has to fall on him for not being able to develop anyone better than these clowns in nearly a decade.

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