You Don't Finish Last...

[mdbdotcom]

In the first week of August, 1986, the Orioles were in 2nd place, 2-1/2 games out of first. I was sure that Earl Weaver (who returned when Edward Bennett Williams agreed to pay him $1 million) was going to be Manager of the Year, because he was making real magic happen with a not very good team. When the season ended, the O's were in last place, 7th in a 7-team division. 22-1/2 games out of first place. Earl said goodbye and thank you very much.

That team had been doing a tight wire act all season, and when a player or two was felled by injury, they fell off the wire. It wasn't just a so-so team playing way over their head, it was a really bad team, but Earl had convinced them they could win and for a good while they did. 

Maybe that's what happened this year. A really bad team went deep into the season staying within reach of first place thanks to smoke, mirrors, and Buck. I don't know if anyone could have won with this crew, it's outfield leader hobbled, it's bullpen leader on the DL, it's leader in the rotation ineffective, and it's leader in the lineup impersonating a seance participant. In other words, it's core from 2012-2016 just a ghost.

I don't think Duquette deserves to be fired, but I think if they decide to rebuild they should do it with someone at the helm who is going to stick around for four or five years. I could go either way with McDowell and Coolbaugh. The meltdown may not have been either one's fault, but neither helped keep the ship from going farther adrift than it should have gone. 

On the last day of the season, Buck always says he wants all his coaches back, but it doesn't always end up that way. Sometimes guys end up making what is reported to be a "personal decision" and drift off into the night. Remember what's his name?

Here is all we know. First, we'll see what happens. Then, we'll see if it makes a difference.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

Well, it certainly was pretty extreme.

But it is not wise in any way, shape or form to not sign any meaningful starting pitching depth (and no...Logan Verrett, Gabriel Ynoa, etc. are not acceptable) when we *knew* that Tillman was hurt. We *knew* that Ubaldo has been a disaster for pretty much his entire tenure outside of 1 or 2 stretches. And we *knew* that Miley is a back of the rotation starter *at best*.

Here's the problem. Duquette hasn't acquired an effective starter since Miguel Gonzalez (2012), Chen (2012), Hammel (2012) and Bud Norris (2013). We're going on how many years of futility from Duquette in regards to starting pitchers? Hell, we had to drive Bundy into the ground last year (110 IP...Jesus Christ) to even have a fighting chance.

This year was irresponsible. It was inept management to go into this season with a hurt Tillman, Ubaldo Jimenez, Wade Miley, Kevin Gausman and Dylan Bundy with *no* meaningful depth behind them. 

The big question to me is exactly what did we know about the likelihood that Tillman's injury would linger into 2017.    I remember Duquette being kind of irked about it when the issue arose in spring training.     

[tntoriole]

Last year’s decisions about pitching by Duquette were also bad...going into that season signing an already injured Gallardo, having Ubaldo as a key part of your plan, and then deciding Mike Wright and Tyler Wilson were BETTER answers than Miggy Gonzalez....God almighty that is some pretty bad GM decisions about pitching right there.  

Throw in all the trades with Davies, Brault and Tarpley for Travis Snider, etc.  and the Chen, Hammel, Miggy balance sheet comes nowhere near good enough for me not to fire Dan.   And that is even before we get to this year’s failures....nope, I sort of wish Dan had just gone to Toronto and I will wish him well after 2018, but we are not going to get done what needs to be done with him making the calls this winter, imho.  

 

[El Gordo]

4 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

I'd like to see a lot of changes made. Sorry but I still think DD and Buck need to go. 

They only need to go if we are doing a major rebuild. It's pretty clear that ownership isn't in favor of it. I do have some questions about Buck in light of the big Sept. fold.

[weams]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

Last year’s decisions about pitching by Duquette were also bad...going into that season signing an already injured Gallardo, having Ubaldo as a key part of your plan, and then deciding Mike Wright and Tyler Wilson were BETTER answers than Miggy Gonzalez....God almighty that is some pretty bad GM decisions about pitching right there.  

Throw in all the trades with Davies, Brault and Tarpley for Travis Snider, etc.  and the Chen, Hammel, Miggy balance sheet comes nowhere near good enough for me not to fire Dan.   And that is even before we get to this year’s failures....nope, I sort of wish Dan had just gone to Toronto and I will wish him well after 2018, but we are not going to get done what needs to be done with him making the calls this winter, imho.  

 

Chen?

[weams]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

Last year’s decisions about pitching by Duquette were also bad...going into that season signing an already injured Gallardo, having Ubaldo as a key part of your plan, and then deciding Mike Wright and Tyler Wilson were BETTER answers than Miggy Gonzalez....God almighty that is some pretty bad GM decisions about pitching right there.  

Throw in all the trades with Davies, Brault and Tarpley for Travis Snider, etc.  and the Chen, Hammel, Miggy balance sheet comes nowhere near good enough for me not to fire Dan.   And that is even before we get to this year’s failures....nope, I sort of wish Dan had just gone to Toronto and I will wish him well after 2018, but we are not going to get done what needs to be done with him making the calls this winter, imho.  

 

And though I wanted Miggy back his ERA in Texas was close to 7.

2017	33	TOT	AL	8	13	.381	4.62	27	27	0	0	0	0	156.0	167	88	80	22	55	2	100	6	0	1	684	95	4.88	1.423	9.6	1.3	3.2	5.8	1.82

 

[tntoriole]

39 minutes ago, weams said:

And though I wanted Miggy back his ERA in Texas was close to 7.

2017	33	TOT	AL	8	13	.381	4.62	27	27	0	0	0	0	156.0	167	88	80	22	55	2	100	6	0	1	684	95	4.88	1.423	9.6	1.3	3.2	5.8	1.82

 

Small sample size at the end of the year.  And Miggy was, of course, cut last year (for zero return) and so he would have pitched last year AND this year and would have been better than anyone on our staff not named Dylan Bundy or Kevin Gausman.  

[tntoriole]

42 minutes ago, weams said:

Chen?

Yes,  Dan signed Chen right?...on the plus side of the balance sheet... But not enough for me, although really, primarily I just think we need a rebuild and I don't think Dan is the guy for that task, so it is not really about letting him go because of this or that trade that went well or didn't go well, it is really about needing to go in a different direction at this point, imho. 

[weams]

2 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Yes,  Dan signed Chen right?...on the plus side of the balance sheet... But not enough for me, although really, primarily I just think we need a rebuild and I don't think Dan is the guy for that task, so it is not really about letting him go because of this or that trade that went well or didn't go well, it is really about needing to go in a different direction at this point, imho. 

Ok I see your point. 

[joelala]

1 hour ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I have questions too. He lost the clubhouse. Can he get it back? Who were the ringleaders?

Other than the abysmal record in September, do you have any evidence of this?  I'm not disagreeing, as I think its entirely possible, but it's definitely a bold claim without some evidence.

[weams]

3 minutes ago, joelala said:

Other than the abysmal record in September, do you have any evidence of this?  I'm not disagreeing, as I think its entirely possible, but it's definitely a bold claim without some evidence.

I've heard no rumor of that at all. I did see poor performances from key employees. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

If ownership intends to let Dan and Buck continue on a one year contract, then let them have whatever coaches or players they want. If they fail, you can clean house next offseason.

[OriolesMagic83]

10 hours ago, Gman!! said:

From WC possibility in early Sept To dead last place!... wow i believe if Joe Giradi managed O’s they would have been a WC... point is I don’t think Yankees had any better talent than the O’s. Davis & Trumbo asses would have been benched & would have gotten better performance from pitching staff... 

The Yankees outscored their opponents by 198 runs & the O's were outscored by their opponents by 98 runs.  I don't see Girardi making up a 296 difference in run differential.  The O's and Yankees weren't even in the same neighbourhood as far as quality of team.  The Yankees are better in every facet of the game and have more young players than the O's (never thought I would say that).

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

27 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

The Yankees outscored their opponents by 198 runs & the O's were outscored by their opponents by 98 runs.  I don't see Girardi making up a 296 difference in run differential.  The O's and Yankees weren't even in the same neighbourhood as far as quality of team.  The Yankees are better in every facet of the game and have more young players than the O's (never thought I would say that).

Unless Girardi can hypnotize Miley, Ubaldo and Tillman into being good pitchers, no manager was dragging this team into the playoffs.  

[ORIOLE33]

I do agree that Girardi would not have hesitated in benching Davis and Trumbo's sorry asses.