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Roch's "Various improvements needed from these six Orioles"

mdbdotcom

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

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2 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

The offense was sufficient if we had decent SP. Offensive upgrades would be nice but not essential.. I would be surprised if Manny didn't have a better year, a full season of Beckham will be an offensive upgrade at SS, and one of Davis/Trumbo will improve.

I think one of them may improve.  I think the odds are that one of them is done.  One dimensional players don't linger well.  Davis has struck out 414 times in 2 seasons.  IF his contract was 2.5 million he would have been released.

 

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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Just now, Tx Oriole said:

You could find three. Sorry, but I just don't trust DD to find three quality starters. 

I don't think it's a question of his finding them, it's whether he will be allowed to spend on them. Remember he found Pedro.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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Just now, foxfield said:

I think one of them may improve.  I think the odds are that one of them is done.  One dimensional players don't linger well.  Davis has struck out 414 times in 2 seasons.  IF his contract was 2.5 million he would have been released.

 

So what? CD and Trumbo weren't the reason we sucked. It was Miley, Ubaldo, Tillman, and Gausman.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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5 minutes ago, foxfield said:

So let me ask this...How can we square "going for it" without doing something like the above.  I get they are not going to pay for the top shelf...but you are not going to go for it without adding someone with higher expectations than Bundy and Gausman.  Even if we get another gem like Chen or Gonzalez to go with....

For the O’s, “going for it” means being in a position to compete for a playoff spot.    Don’t forget that in 2016 we made the playoffs while giving 84 starts to the following:  

Jimenez 25 starts, 5.18 ERA

Gallardo 23 starts, 5.42 ERA

Wilson 13 starts, 5.67 ERA

Miley 11 starts, 6.17 ERA

Wright 12 starts, 6.22 ERA

As bad as that looks, everyone on that list had a better ERA than Jimenez, Tillman or Hellickson had this year.     That’s how low the bar is for improving this pitching staff. The starters gave up 92 more runs in 2017 than in 2016.

Mind you, I’d love picking up three really solid starting pitchers, but my guess is we’ll pick up one or maybe two and then pick up a couple of guys where we’re hoping to catch lightning in a bottle.

 

 

 

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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18 minutes ago, foxfield said:

So let me ask this...How can we square "going for it" without doing something like the above.  I get they are not going to pay for the top shelf...but you are not going to go for it without adding someone with higher expectations than Bundy and Gausman.  Even if we get another gem like Chen or Gonzalez to go with....

I disagree. If you sign 3 guys who's average is Gausman's 15 QS we will contend.

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mdbdotcom Hangout Grand Counsel

mdbdotcom

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5 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

The offense was sufficient if we had decent SP. Offensive upgrades would be nice but not essential.. I would be surprised if Manny didn't have a better year, a full season of Beckham will be an offensive upgrade at SS, and one of Davis/Trumbo will improve.

You've said several times that the offense was sufficient, yet we were outscored by every single team that made the playoffs, including the national league teams.

We scored 3 runs or less 76 times, including 19 in September and one in October - that's 20 times in our last 28 games. Without significant offensive improvement, this team will not compete for a playoff spot.

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

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2 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

So what? CD and Trumbo weren't the reason we sucked. It was Miley, Ubaldo, Tillman, and Gausman.

You are looking back and I am looking forward.  I agree that pitching was the #1 issue, but even with some pitching, this team will struggle going forward with the same roster.  You still need to add a catcher and you have some kids that we will likely need to play in corner OF spots and also to contend you will likely need to move AJ to RF.  In '18, having Trumbo AND Davis with the same limitations are going to be very complicated.  And that is considering that one of them improves.  What if they don't?

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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1 minute ago, Tx Oriole said:

You are right. But Angelos won't. Instead of that horrible contract he gave CD he should have gotten pitching. I know I am beating a dead horse. 

I think PA understands the window is closing fast. If he wasn't serious about winning he wouldn't have upped the payroll to 160 M.

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

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2 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

I disagree. If you sign 3 guys who's average is Gausman's 15 QS we will contend.

Well yes, but you might well sign one and trade for 1...but there simply isn't that many available to just go down to pitchers are us and grab three guys of that caliber.

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

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9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

For the O’s, “going for it” means being in a position to compete for a playoff spot.    Don’t forget that in 2016 we made the playoffs while giving 84 starts to the following:  

Jimenez 25 starts, 5.18 ERA

Gallardo 23 starts, 5.42 ERA

Wilson 13 starts, 5.67 ERA

Miley 11 starts, 6.17 ERA

Wright 12 starts, 6.22 ERA

As bad as that looks, everyone on that list had a better ERA than Jimenez, Tillman or Hellickson had this year.     That’s how low the bar is for improving this pitching staff. The starters gave up 92 more runs in 2017 than in 2016.

Mind you, I’d love picking up three really solid starting pitchers, but my guess is we’ll pick up one or maybe two and then pick up a couple of guys where we’re hoping to catch lightning in a bottle.

 

 

 

That is mind numbing and hopeful all in one....lol

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Enjoy Terror Hangout Grand Counsel

Enjoy Terror

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13 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

That's a different story. If I were Dan I would be arguing to PA that if he is serious about contending he needs to spend on that pitching. 

Well, I would’ve maybe had the opposite conversation about paying Chris Davis and Mark Trumbo.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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5 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

You've said several times that the offense was sufficient, yet we were outscored by every single team that made the playoffs, including the national league teams.

We scored 3 runs or less 76 times, including 19 in September and one in October - that's 20 times in our last 28 games. Without significant offensive improvement, this team will not compete for a playoff spot.

We scored 1 less R this season than last. The problem was R allowed. 

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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4 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Well yes, but you might well sign one and trade for 1...but there simply isn't that many available to just go down to pitchers are us and grab three guys of that caliber.

There are plenty: Lynn 18 QS, Cobb 15,  Cashner 18,  Darvish 15, Chacin 16, Gonzo 13 CC  14

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