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DD: O's must be "more proactive" on pitchers, but "no 4-5 year deals"

Frobby

By Frobby
in Orioles Talk

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

Posted
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10 minutes ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Does anyone put any stock into what Kubatko writes?

It's a quote.   I don't believe he fabricated it, if that is what you are implying.   I believe Dan really said what Kubatko says he did.

So I'm not sure what you mean by putting stock in what he says, unless you really believe he made up a DD quote.

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Going Underground Hangout Grand Counsel

Going Underground

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, SteveA said:

It's a quote.   I don't believe he fabricated it, if that is what you are implying.   I believe Dan really said what Kubatko says he did.

So I'm not sure what you mean by putting stock in what he says, unless you really believe he made up a DD quote.

Buck said it years ago.

But what is interesting to me is to read just today in Roch’s column of the quotes of Buck Showalter that essentially support the very notion that the Orioles are indeed employing the above-mentioned bullpen arm strategy of filling out the roster. Listen to this from Buck …

“Let’s face it, guys: Five-year contracts for starting pitchers have proven to be a pretty consistent graveyard. It just doesn’t work. You’re lucky to get three. And that’s what some of these clubs do. They pay five or six to get three, and that’s why the premium is on the June draft and the five or six picks that we’re going to get in the first round. And we’ve got to hit on some of those Friday night pitchers like Kevin Gausman.”

 

https://thebaltimorewire.com/2016/01/20/baltimore-orioles-buck-showalter-on-the-pitching-strategy/

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

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1 minute ago, Going Underground said:

Buck said it years ago.

But what is interesting to me is to read just today in Roch’s column of the quotes of Buck Showalter that essentially support the very notion that the Orioles are indeed employing the above-mentioned bullpen arm strategy of filling out the roster. Listen to this from Buck …

“Let’s face it, guys: Five-year contracts for starting pitchers have proven to be a pretty consistent graveyard. It just doesn’t work. You’re lucky to get three. And that’s what some of these clubs do. They pay five or six to get three, and that’s why the premium is on the June draft and the five or six picks that we’re going to get in the first round. And we’ve got to hit on some of those Friday night pitchers like Kevin Gausman.”

 

https://thebaltimorewire.com/2016/01/20/baltimore-orioles-buck-showalter-on-the-pitching-strategy/

I'm not sure how that quote supports the notion of "bullpen arm" strategy.   He is talking about spending lots of draft picks on top college pitchers, and we did indeed follow up the quote in  January 2016 by doing just that in the 2016 draft (Sedlock, Akin, etc).

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Going Underground Hangout Grand Counsel

Going Underground

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3 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I'm not sure how that quote supports the notion of "bullpen arm" strategy.   He is talking about spending lots of draft picks on top college pitchers, and we did indeed follow up the quote in  January 2016 by doing just that in the 2016 draft (Sedlock, Akin, etc).

I meant the Duquette quote on signing free agents for five years.Buck was against it many years ago. Orioles philosophy. 

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

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Just now, Going Underground said:

I meant the Duquette quote on signing free agents for five years.Buck was against it many years ago. Orioles philosophy. 

Oh, OK.

So maybe the team philosophy comes from Buck and not Angelos, is that the implication?   Or from both?   Or from Buck whispering in Angelos' ear?

I have no idea how the lines of command actually function in this organization.   I'm not sure anybody does!

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AZRon Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

AZRon

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Dan Duquette, Nov. 8, 2011:
"I'm here to build a contending team that everyone in Baltimore can be proud of," Duquette said. "During our meetings last week, it was obvious that Mr. Angelos and I share a passion for organization efficiency and a commitment to build a competitive team in the American League East, which I know from experience is baseballs most competitive division.

"I'm going to do everything in my power to help this club succeed."


Year         W     L    W-L%  AL East   GB    Playoffs
                                            Finish   
2017        75    87    .463    5th      18.0        
2016        89    73    .549    2nd       4.0    Lost ALWC (1-0)    
2015        81    81    .500    3rd      12.0            
2014        96    66    .593    1st         --      Lost ALCS (4-0)    
2013        85    77    .525    3rd      12.0            
2012        93    69    .574    2nd       2.0    Lost ALDS (3-2)

Has Duquette kept his promise?

Does it depend on the definitions of "contending" and "competitive"? 

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oriole Veteran All-Star

oriole

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I think any year, if any one team in baseball signs the three best free agent pitchers out there, they would have a pretty good chance to win.

It's never happened.   So saying that is like saying that if I win the powerball lottery I would be in pretty good shape financially.   It's painfully obvious and true, near impossible to achieve, and thus not particularly relevant to any real discussion.

I know it won't happen, I was just saying that if it did happen the organization isn't so lost that they couldn't win. They definitely could with that rotation and the current line up. But it won't happen and it's just for giggles that I even responded to the possibility. I was secretly hoping for Cobb though. 

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theocean Major Leaguer

theocean

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, AZRon said:

Dan Duquette, Nov. 8, 2011:
"I'm here to build a contending team that everyone in Baltimore can be proud of," Duquette said. "During our meetings last week, it was obvious that Mr. Angelos and I share a passion for organization efficiency and a commitment to build a competitive team in the American League East, which I know from experience is baseballs most competitive division.

"I'm going to do everything in my power to help this club succeed."


Year         W     L    W-L%  AL East   GB    Playoffs
                                            Finish   
2017        75    87    .463    5th      18.0        
2016        89    73    .549    2nd       4.0    Lost ALWC (1-0)    
2015        81    81    .500    3rd      12.0            
2014        96    66    .593    1st         --      Lost ALCS (4-0)    
2013        85    77    .525    3rd      12.0            
2012        93    69    .574    2nd       2.0    Lost ALDS (3-2)

Has Duquette kept his promise?

Does it depend on the definitions of "contending" and "competitive"? 

This board is really hard on Duquette. The Orioles have made the playoffs on his watch three times. In 2012, they lost an elimination game against CC Sabathia in his prime. In 2014, they beat Scherzer, Verlander, and Price to make the ALCS - but unfortunately ran into a red-hot Royals team. In 2016, they almost won the Wild Card Game.

They won more games than any other team in the AL over a five year period. That's being competitive. That's contending.

 

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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1 hour ago, oriole said:

I cannot stand the way this team is being run right now. Either rebuild or retool for another go at it but signing players like Vargas or Cashner is a losing team even if they have decent years.

Signing a bunch of retread experiment/AAAA types on 1-2 year deals would be consistent with rebuild. Just get some cheap bodies to fill out the rotation until we're ready to compete. Take a little pressure off our minor league guys who aren't ready for MLB. Honestly, I prefer that if it means license to trade Britton and Manny, develop Harvey properly, and build up the organization for the next regime.

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Luke-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Luke-OH

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19 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Cashner, Vargas, and Gonzo combined for 49 QS last year. Add to that the 34 QS from Bundy and Gausman, that's 83 QS. With our pen we usually win at least 20 more W's than total QS. 

If it was as simple as signing people who were good last year, then Ubaldo and Gallardo would have been good signings.  All of those guys have serious questions going forward, especially Cashner who posted terrible peripherals and has seen his velocity decline substantially.  

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