DD: O's must be "more proactive" on pitchers, but "no 4-5 year deals"

[theobird]

The Orioles "must be more proactive"....That just makes me laugh.

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

 

Well, cross Cobb and Lynn off the list, IMO.    I guess we knew that, but this seems like the final nail in the coffin.   I'll be shocked if either doesn't get 4 years.

I think it is very sad what's happened to this organization. I am afraid we wont see Lynn or Cobb. Dammit! 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

It's a quote.   I don't believe he fabricated it, if that is what you are implying.   I believe Dan really said what Kubatko says he did.

So I'm not sure what you mean by putting stock in what he says, unless you really believe he made up a DD quote.

I’m pretty sure DD said this while holding court with the local media this afternoon.     So yes, I believe DD said what Buck reported.   And Roch has been forecasting for weeks that the O’s wouldn’t chase Cobb or Lynn because they’d be too pricey.   

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, mdbdotcom said:

If Chris Davis and Mark Trumbo don't hit again, none of it will matter. You could sign Darvish, Arrieta and Cobb and we still wouldn't win with the offense we put out there last year.

I'm going to enjoy watching the kids play in 2019. Until then, grin and bear it.

You are right but it's hard to do that when you've been a fan nearly 60 years. 

[spiritof66]

7 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

I think it is very sad what's happened to this organization. I am afraid we wont see Lynn or Cobb. Dammit! 

Cheer up. We're going after Francisco Liriano -- the Francisco Liriano. 

[oriole]

38 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Signing a bunch of retread experiment/AAAA types on 1-2 year deals would be consistent with rebuild. Just get some cheap bodies to fill out the rotation until we're ready to compete. Take a little pressure off our minor league guys who aren't ready for MLB. Honestly, I prefer that if it means license to trade Britton and Manny, develop Harvey properly, and build up the organization for the next regime.

You have to couple the AAAA players with selling off current assets. That includes Machado, Schoop, Jones, Britton, Brach and could mean players like Givens or Mancini if the right offer was made. They're obviously not doing that...they're just probably signing players like Vargas and Cashner who I really don't care to watch unless it was with shiny new prospects with a bright future. 

[AZRon]

50 minutes ago, theocean said:

This board is really hard on Duquette. The Orioles have made the playoffs on his watch three times. In 2012, they lost an elimination game against CC Sabathia in his prime. In 2014, they beat Scherzer, Verlander, and Price to make the ALCS - but unfortunately ran into a red-hot Royals team. In 2016, they almost won the Wild Card Game.

They won more games than any other team in the AL over a five year period. That's being competitive. That's contending.

Thanks for answering my question(s).

I hadn't realized that I was being "hard on Duquette" -- that was not my intention.

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

i want you guys to do an exercise with me.  I actually did this, it was liberating and it made me feel better*.

Go get a pen and a piece of paper.   I'll wait.

 

 

 

 

Hey there!  You're back!

Ok, with your pen and paper I want you to write down the names of every FA starting pitcher you'd like to see the Orioles sign.  For that matter, write down some hitters, too.  

K, did you get them all?  Didn't forget anyone?

Ok, now I want you to take that pen and draw a giant X across the page.  You can make it with just two lines or you can scribble through the names if you want, too.

Because that's exactly what's happening with us in the FA market.  I think you guys deep down know this but this exercise might help some of you really understand.

*I didn't REALLY do this exercise but I'm not fooling myself anymore to think that the Orioles have a shot for anyone good.  Same as it ever was.

I know deep down nothing is going to happen in the FA market. But Angelos and DD are frustrating to me. 

[tntoriole]

“I don’t know how to rebuild”   Dan Duquette....

quote in Melewski’s  article in MASN today...

 

Well, there you go.  If the only tool I have is a hammer, everything looks like a rock. 

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, oriole said:

I disagree...if we signed Darvish, Arrieta, and Cobb then I think we'd have a pretty damn good chance.

But they aren't going to do that? You think Angelos would sign off on Darvish? You think Arrieta would want to back to the O's? I don't. I think we will see the Tillman types. 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, oriole said:

I cannot stand the way this team is being run right now. Either rebuild or retool for another go at it but signing players like Vargas or Cashner is a losing team even if they have decent years.

 

50 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Cashner, Vargas, and Gonzo combined for 49 QS last year. Add to that the 34 QS from Bundy and Gausman, that's 83 QS. With our pen we usually win at least 20 more W's than total QS. 

Yeah, I don’t agree with oriole that signing Vargas or Cashner would lead to a losing season “even if they had decent years.”    If those two could replicate last year, I’d want them in a heartbeat.    But let’s look at reality:

Cashner had an ERA that was 1.2 runs below his FIP, 1.9 runs below his xFIP.    And, he had a career 94 ERA+ before 2017 when he posted 138.

Vargas had an ERA that was .5 runs below his FIP, and nearly .8 runs below his xFIP.   He had a career 94 ERA+ before last year’s 108.

Bottom line, neither one is likely to replicate their 2017 season or come anywhere close.   They wouldn’t be enough to put us in wild card contention (which, realistically, is all we probably can hope for).    

 

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

Being that this is Duquette's last year on his Orioles contract (and possibly his last chance for him to enhance his legacy that he leaves here if he can at least put a competitive, winning team on the field), I would assume that he wouldn't care about the length of deals ........ after all, if he is likely gone after this season, why would he care if the Orioles still owed money to a starting pitcher for 2 more years, 3 more years, 4 more years, or 25 more years ???

Subsequently, with his latest proclamation about not wanting to give an incoming free agent starting pitcher more than 3 years, I suspect that there is a good chance that he WILL be back with the Orioles for the 2019 season and beyond.

 

o

Oh no! Say it ain't so. You may be right though. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Oh no! Say it ain't so. You may be right though. 

I don’t think you can infer from Dan’s statement that he expects to be back.   He’s really just parroting the team party line.  

[foxfield]

15 minutes ago, AZRon said:

Thanks for answering my question(s).

I hadn't realized that I was being "hard on Duquette" -- that was not my intention.

 

1 hour ago, AZRon said:

Dan Duquette, Nov. 8, 2011:
"I'm here to build a contending team that everyone in Baltimore can be proud of," Duquette said. "During our meetings last week, it was obvious that Mr. Angelos and I share a passion for organization efficiency and a commitment to build a competitive team in the American League East, which I know from experience is baseballs most competitive division.

"I'm going to do everything in my power to help this club succeed."

Year         W     L    W-L%  AL East   GB    Playoffs
                                            Finish   
2017        75    87    .463    5th      18.0        
2016        89    73    .549    2nd       4.0    Lost ALWC (1-0)    
2015        81    81    .500    3rd      12.0            
2014        96    66    .593    1st         --      Lost ALCS (4-0)    
2013        85    77    .525    3rd      12.0            
2012        93    69    .574    2nd       2.0    Lost ALDS (3-2)

Has Duquette kept his promise?

Does it depend on the definitions of "contending" and "competitive"? 

The answer of course is yes. He has kept his promise. And no it does not depend on the definition of “contending” or “competitive”.  Unless of course you define either word incorrectly.  

[bobmc]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

Yeah, I don’t agree with oriole that signing Vargas or Cashner would lead to a losing season “even if they had decent years.”    If those two could replicate last year, I’d want them in a heartbeat.    But let’s look at reality:

Cashner had an ERA that was 1.2 runs below his FIP, 1.9 runs below his xFIP.    And, he had a career 94 ERA+ before 2017 when he posted 138.

Vargas had an ERA that was .5 runs below his FIP, and nearly .8 runs below his xFIP.   He had a career 94 ERA+ before last year’s 108.

Bottom line, neither one is likely to replicate their 2017 season or come anywhere close.   They wouldn’t be enough to put us in wild card contention (which, realistically, is all we probably can hope for).    

 

Doesn't wildcard have some Kool Aid for you?  We need more positive Frobby or this hot stove season will be the pits!  Man up!