OK, time to grade the offseason moves

[Number5]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Wasn't that in the minors?  

I don't think so.  Pretty sure he was hit in the head in the dugout and put on the DL.  He got cold-cocked by a drunk in a bar after he was in the minors on rehab, which exacerbated his problems.  That's how I remember it, anyway.  Not absolutely certain.

[DrungoHazewood]

6 minutes ago, Number5 said:

I don't think so.  Pretty sure he was hit in the head in the dugout and put on the DL.  He got cold-cocked by a drunk in a bar after he was in the minors on rehab, which exacerbated his problems.  That's how I remember it, anyway.  Not absolutely certain.

The wikipedia version:

"The 1993 season was a disaster for Davis. Splitting time fairly evenly between first base and designated hitter, Davis was batting just .177 with one home run and nine RBIs through May when his jaw was broken in a bar fight.^[9] After a brief stint with the Triple-A Rochester Redwings, Davis's return to action was delayed when, while he was sitting in the dugout during an Orioles game on August 1, he was hit in the head by a line drive foul ball of the bat of teammate Jeffrey Hammonds.^[10] He was finally reactivated on September 6, but, following an argument with Orioles manager Johnny Oates about being left out of the starting line-up against left-handed pitcher Dave Fleming, was released by the club without playing another game"

Speaking of Davis, I was at this game.  Where his infield single in the 7th was the Orioles' only hit.

[Number5]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The wikipedia version:

"The 1993 season was a disaster for Davis. Splitting time fairly evenly between first base and designated hitter, Davis was batting just .177 with one home run and nine RBIs through May when his jaw was broken in a bar fight.^[9] After a brief stint with the Triple-A Rochester Redwings, Davis's return to action was delayed when, while he was sitting in the dugout during an Orioles game on August 1, he was hit in the head by a line drive foul ball of the bat of teammate Jeffrey Hammonds.^[10] He was finally reactivated on September 6, but, following an argument with Orioles manager Johnny Oates about being left out of the starting line-up against left-handed pitcher Dave Fleming, was released by the club without playing another game"

Speaking of Davis, I was at this game.  Where his infield single in the 7th was the Orioles' only hit.

Thanks.  So the bar fight happened first.  I could have sworn that it occurred in Norfolk when the Red Wings were there to play the Tides.  Oh well.  He was hit by the foul ball in the dugout in Baltimore, as I read it.

[Tx Oriole]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

So, with Cobb in the fold, how do you rate our offseason moves?

I thought about phrasing the question differently -- how do you rate our offseason acquisitions?     That formulation would have disregarded the decision not to trade Manny etc. and just focused on who we acquired.    So, the question I asked includes the decision not to sell.

To review the major moves of the offseason:

1.   Shopped Manny but decided not to trade him.

2.   Didn't shop Britton and then he got hurt.

3.   Didn't shop Brach or Jones.

4.   Signed Cobb for 4/$57 mm, $20 mm reportedly deferred.

5.   Signed Cashner for 2/$16 mm, incentives could take it to 3/$41 mm.

6.  Signed Tillman for $3 mm guaranteed, incentives could take it to $10 mm.

7.  Signed Rasmus to MiL contract that guarantees $3 mm if he makes the majors and has $2 mm in incentives.

8.  Signed Valencia to MiL contract that guarantees $1.2 mm if he makes the majors and has $3 mm in incentives.

9.  Signed Gentry to a minor league deal that guarantees $900 k if he makes the majors.

9.  Made three Rule 5 picks -- Cortes, Araujo, Mesa (who is now DFA)

10.  Claimed Andrew Susac and put him on the 40-man roster

11.  Traded for Elgelb Vielma and put him on the 40-man roster

12.   Signed other depth guys to minor league deals -- RubenTejada, Joely Rodriguez, Josh Edgin, Luis Sardinas, Alex Presley, Jaycob Brugman (passed through waivers), Pedro Alvarez, Ryan O'Rourke (this is not an exhaustive list but includes the more significant signings I believe).

So, what say you?

I think them not trading Manny is only problem I see. I think they had a pretty good offseason. 

[AnythingO's]

2 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

 I wonder whether those who graded  it an A were overreacting to things looking a lot better than they did five weeks ago (before the Cashner signing) or two days ago.

I gave a A because as Mike AD stated " because of the all things considered" and the way A option was worded "Couldn't have turned out better, REALISTICALLY". We all want to see direction and commitment to that direction but realistically, in probably the last year, for Buck, Manny Jones, Britton, and Brach and absent a clear direction, I really don't see how it could have gone much better.

 

[HokieOs]

Gave us a B.

We have improved the pitching staff. But we  still don't have a lot of speed. I would have liked to have traded Machado (though not trading him doesn't necessarily keep us from an A and obviously I would want it to be the RIGHT deal). 

But the moves are enough to make me think we can at least be a competitive team this year. Playoffs? Probably not. Without Cobb though, this would probably be a C. Cobb was a pretty big difference maker.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

I might argue that our chances of extending Schoop, or even Manny, are greatly improved now that they can see we’ve addressed the pitching problems in an aggressive way that extends beyond 2018.    Money is what players want most, but I think players also want to feel like they have a chance to win.    Six weeks ago, the situation was very bleak, and if I were a player, I’d have been questioning the team’s commitment to win.    But now they’ve got two starting pitchers under control for four years (Cobb and Bundy), one under control for three (Gausman), and another for two or possibly three (Cashner).    And, now we’re in position not to have to rush our minor league talent.    

Now, will the O’s get a dialogue going with Schoop (or Manny) in the next month or two?    Remember, we signed Jones about six weeks into the 2012 season, when he was due to be a free agent after the 2013 season, so we can hope the O’s will get off their keisters now that their free agent work is largely done.   

To my point, see this quote from Adam Jones today:

Quote

“I like the scenario. I like the fact that they risked four years. They went up to four years. That means that ‘OK, cool.’ This is a step. This is not a one-year, two-year deal to just hold you over until someone’s ready. This is a four-year deal saying that you can possibly be one of the anchors of the staff. That right there is a sign. It’s a very good sign for the future for the other players.”

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2018/03/jones-on-cobb-weve-long-searched-for-someone-of-his-caliber.html

[Aristotelian]

B. Would have had to do a radical retool/rebuild to get an A. In terms of trying to field the best possible team this year, they did a good job. They had some obvious needs and filled them without spending too much money.

[theocean]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's the thing, they really can't because the payroll is already high enough, littered with bad contracts that would prohibit them from doing anything.   Which is why I wanted them to trade Machado and anyone else they could.

I guess this is "going all in" as much as they can, which again...to me, is whatever.  I don't understand how this organization can sit in the warehouse, look at the Sox, look at the Yankees and then look at us and say we're ready to contend after the offseason that we had.  They'll do a good job of selling it to the fans but I still don't see how this team wins more than 75 games.

 

Not trying to jump on you here - but it kinda sounds like you'd disappointed no matter what. 

Right now there's snow on the ground. It's cold and it sucks. In a week, the Orioles will be back on the field, along with summer, good times, crabs, and Natty Boh. The O's have one of the best rotations they've had in a LONG time. They have a shortstop who is one of the most exciting players in the league. They have a Center Fielder who is one of the most fun, charismatic players in the league. They have exciting players in Schoop, Beckam, and Mancini. They have a lights out bullpen. They have players in the minors ready to come up and make an impact. And then have a first baseman, who can single handedly win games when he's hot.

That's some fun stuff. And no, the O's aren't ever going to stack up against the Yankees and Sox on paper. That's just part of being an O's fan: there's Death, Taxes, and exorbitant NYY/BOS payrolls.

I hope that Davis' and Trumbo's contract doesn't ruin an entire season of fun baseball for you. You wouldn't be on this board if you didn't love the Orioles - so I hope that your general "whatever" feelings that you've had this offseason turn into fun excitement in a week.

[Moose Milligan]

4 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

They won 75 games last year.  

They added Cashner (4.80 FIP) and Cobb (4.15 FIP), to replace guys with 5.60 and 6.80 ERAs.
Manny had his worst year as a regular, at 3.5 wins.  He could/should be back to 5+.
Davis hit .215/.309/.423.  He could do better.
Trumbo "hit" .234/.289/.397.  He or his replacements could be better.
Jones is 32, but he mightn't slip much.
Hardy's .578 OPS has been jettisoned.
Rasmus is a good player.
Joseph's defense might offset the loss of Castillo's offense.  Maybe.
Schoop will probably regress, but he's still just 25.
Mancini might not turn into Joe Charboneau.
Gausman and Bundy might turn good stuff into better results.

I'm not going to try to pretend this is a 90-win team that'll keep pace with Boston and New York, but it's not going to take a confluence of insane good luck to win more than 75.

Pass that kool aid over here buddy.  

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Pass that kool aid over here buddy.  

Objectively, the starting pitching should be better, and therefore the team should be better.    I'm not convinced the offense will be better.   OF defense should be better, still waiting to see how Machado/Beckham looks defensively.  

[Moose Milligan]

46 minutes ago, theocean said:

Not trying to jump on you here - but it kinda sounds like you'd disappointed no matter what. 

Right now there's snow on the ground. It's cold and it sucks. In a week, the Orioles will be back on the field, along with summer, good times, crabs, and Natty Boh. The O's have one of the best rotations they've had in a LONG time. They have a shortstop who is one of the most exciting players in the league. They have a Center Fielder who is one of the most fun, charismatic players in the league. They have exciting players in Schoop, Beckam, and Mancini. They have a lights out bullpen. They have players in the minors ready to come up and make an impact. And then have a first baseman, who can single handedly win games when he's hot.

That's some fun stuff. And no, the O's aren't ever going to stack up against the Yankees and Sox on paper. That's just part of being an O's fan: there's Death, Taxes, and exorbitant NYY/BOS payrolls.

I hope that Davis' and Trumbo's contract doesn't ruin an entire season of fun baseball for you. You wouldn't be on this board if you didn't love the Orioles - so I hope that your general "whatever" feelings that you've had this offseason turn into fun excitement in a week.

 

Of course I'm happy about baseball being back.  But the fact that they have one of the best rotations they've had in a long time doesn't mean that it's a very good one.  That's like saying I'm happy with the C I got on the math test because I got a D two weeks ago.  At least I'm improving but I sure ain't great.

Sure there's a lot to like about this team, I love all the players you just mentioned and I'm thrilled that a week from tomorrow it'll be opening day but I'm still not really thrilled with this offseason and thinking this team can contend.  If everything breaks right and Gausman does pitch a full season like he does in the 2nd half and Bundy gets better, Cobb pitches as well as he did last year, Cashner somehow picks up his k rate, and Davis comes back strong and Tillman gets better, Trumbo doesn't completely suck, Britton returns to form and everyone stays healthy...yeah, this team can compete.  But that's hoping and expecting things to go right.  Maybe we'll get caught up in one of those crazy seasons where no one gets hurt for very long and everyone has a career year.

To chalk it up as being part of an O's fan, death, taxes and Bos/NYC payrolls is a bit of an excuse that I don't necessarily buy.  Yeah, we can't compete dollar for dollar with those guys but we've still been able to spend a good chunk of change.  The biggest difference between us and them is that we can't afford to have a Davis type contract blow up in our face because it'll sink us and most likely prohibit us from keeping a guy like Manny.  When Boston sinks money into a guy like Pablo Sandoval and it doesn't work out, they can just cover their mistakes with more money.  We can't.  We just need to be better and smarter.

I was really hoping they'd blow it up this offseason and start fresh but obviously it looks like they think they have another run in them.  Here's hoping.  

[atomic]

I think they did the best they could with the money they had available and a weak free agency class.   Lynn didn't want to come here it seems.  Front office staff did their job and now it is time for Buck and the players to execute.  

[Teddy OBP]

31 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Pass that kool aid over here buddy.  

I'm drinking it too after yesterday.  I was happy to see pro gambler Steve Fezzik put $ down on the over this morning.

MLB Season Wins, I bet a chunk on Baltimore UNDER 75 wins last month, but this morning I got flat, playing Baltimore OVER 71.5/72. The Baltimore number had gotten really low. With the signing yesterday of very capable starter Alex Cobb, I have to figure that 72 number goes up.

 

[Can_of_corn]

So if they end up at 73-74 you win both?