Is this rock bottom?

[Frobby]

This is a bottomless pit of a season.  

[LA2]

On 4/24/2018 at 11:16 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

Simply asserting that the Yankees' payroll is in the neighborhood of the Orioles (within $20 to $25 Million) this season without explaining the significant nuances that I added omits too much of the picture. The fact that this season, the Orioles happen to be within earshot of the Yankees in terms of payroll mostly accentuates the fact that the Orioles took a major chance with Chris Davis (and Mark Trumbo) and failed ...... something that the Yankees have done repeatedly over the years, with no accompanying anxiety or consequences to have to deal with as do mid-market teams such as the Orioles have to.

 

The fact that Yankees can spend and waste and not miss a beat (and the Orioles cannot) is more fundamentally important when critiquing and comparing a team's spending than is a solitary season's payroll, if the asssertion is that they are in the same neighborhood. They are 2 very different neighborhoods, with one similarity.

  

o

Jacoby Ellsbury owed over $21 million / year out through 2020 with a $5 million buyout in 2021 is another good example.

[gtman55]

We're not even close to rock bottom. At some point we could be 40+ games below .500...

 

[24fps]

43-66 get the team to 60 wins.  I think that's doable so yes, this is rock bottom or pretty close.  I think 70 wins at this point is a very long shot.  Is the team worse than 2001?  My money says yes.  1988?  No.  

This is a very bad team regardless.  

[OFFNY]

On 5/28/2018 at 7:29 PM, Tx Oriole said:

 

Yes, but the Yankees have better ownership, better coaches than the O's. Their ownership would never have signed CD. They'd have used that money on the team. 

 

o

 

Have you no awareness at all of the Yankees and their payroll activities over the last 40 years since free agency went into full bloom ???

 

This previous post of mine only covers the last 20 years or so. There are plenty of more wasteful examples between the late 1970's and the late 1990's in terms of inefficient spending on the part of the Yankees ........ and NONE OF IT has ever hung over their heads in a similar black cloud fashion to the way that the current Chris Davis contract hangs over the Orioles' heads. If Chris Davis were playing for the Yankees right now with the same exact contract that he has with the Orioles, it would be nothing more than a blip on their radar, at most a mild-to-moderate inconvenience for them in the big picture. It certainly would not be a major obstacle in terms of whether or not they would be able to hang onto one of the best players in the game (as is currently the case with the Orioles and Manny Machado.) 

 

 

On 4/24/2018 at 7:53 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

The major difference between the Yankees and the Orioles in terms of payroll is that with the Yankees there /has been no "risk/reward" factor in terms of paying their players to stay and/or acquiring new and expensive free agents. For mid-market and small-market teams, if they splurge on a couple of highly expensive free agents that don't work out (like the Orioles did with Chris Davis), those teams will likely be moderately to severely hamstrung financially as a result of those signings for several years. The Orioles, in light of Chris Davis' most recent contract extension and the unresolved situation with Manny Machado (and now Jonathan Schoop, also) and his/their potential mega-contract(s), could be starting down the barrel of that type of situation over the next few years. For the Yankees, it doesn't matter if they spend a lot of money on free agents that either bust and/or don't live up to the expectations that they had of them when they gave them all of that money (Carl Pavano, A. J. Burnett, Randy Johnson, Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira, etc.) Or for that matter, Derek Jeter in the last few years of his career. Jeter wasn't a free agent signing, but he was a player that was making boatloads of money at that time ($16 Million a year over the final 5 years of his career between 2010 and 2014), and he was nowhere near that type of money player in his last 2 years with the team. But for the Yankees and their short-term and long-term budgets, no matter ....... they can keep spending, with little or no repercussions. There is the luxury tax situation for teams that spend excessively, but I'm talking about repercussions that seriously/adversely affect their thinking and their general financial situation in any meaningful way. Sure, the Yankees would like to avoid the luxury tax when they can, but if they don't, it's not like it then will significantly change their overall situation at-large. They almost certainly would not be remotely considering the possibility of letting a player like Manny Machado leave via free agency (if he were on their team) with only a draft pick coming back their way. Their payroll has dropped some over the last 2-3 seasons, but that has been due largely to big contracts coming off the the books, not necessarily a conscious effort by the Yankees to considerably tighten their pocket strings

 

o

 

[OFFNY]

1 hour ago, LA2 said:

 

Jacoby Ellsbury owed over $21 million / year out through 2020 with a $5 million buyout in 2021 is another good example.

 

o

 

Thank you.

 

As somebody once said about 8 or 9 years ago prior to Dan Duquette coming on board ........ if you give me $200 Million (or more) per year, every year for 8, 9, 10 years running, then I'll find a way to put winning/competitive teams on the field year in and year out. If you give me the financial restrictions that Andy MacPhail has/had on him, they'll hang me outside of OPACY.

 

o

[FlipTheBird]

8 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

Yes but the Yankees have better ownership, better coaches than the O's. Their ownership would never have signed CD. They'd have used that money on the team. 

As OFFNY already noted, this statement is greatly misled. The Yankees have routinely handed out bad contracts that benefit them right away and hurt later, because they know they've got the assets to eat that hurt. That gargantuan Stanton contract they took on prior to this year is doomed to become an albatross one day, they just know they can afford it.

[maybenxtyr]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

This is a bottomless pit of a season.  

This is the first season where I have not been able to watch the games. I always tuned in even during the 14 years of losing. This team is just terrible.

[sportsfan8703]

8 hours ago, Frobby said:

This is a bottomless pit of a season.  

Yup. Hope we don’t mess up and not get the 1st pick in the draft for 2019. 

[gtman55]

For years, we outplayed what all the experts and metrics said. We made the playoffs but never went deep into them. Still, that was a vast improvement over the previous 14 years of dismal Orioles teams. At the end of last year, we started to look and play like the crappy team so many said we were. This year we're even more dismal. Matter of fact, this year feels worse than watching the '88 team in some ways. We've gotten used to having a winning team for a while now. Yet, we all knew this team was going downhill but no one thought we'd get this bad this fast.

The problem now is, I have no confidence that this organization is capable of a proper complete rebuild. And they do need a complete overhaul from management to scouting to philosophy to roster choices. The only way I think we get back on track is if the Angelos family sells the team.

[LA2]

4 hours ago, gtman55 said:

For years, we outplayed what all the experts and metrics said. We made the playoffs but never went deep into them. Still, that was a vast improvement over the previous 14 years of dismal Orioles teams. At the end of last year, we started to look and play like the crappy team so many said we were. This year we're even more dismal. Matter of fact, this year feels worse than watching the '88 team in some ways. We've gotten used to having a winning team for a while now. Yet, we all knew this team was going downhill but no one thought we'd get this bad this fast.

The problem now is, I have no confidence that this organization is capable of a proper complete rebuild. And they do need a complete overhaul from management to scouting to philosophy to roster choices. The only way I think we get back on track is if the Angelos family sells the team.

And were good enough to have gone deeper. It just didn't go our way.

[Uli2001]

14 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

Team chemistry? Have you looked at the team ERA over the last 100, 130 games? That’s not a team chemistry problem. 

It's amazing what a lack of defensive effort and morale in general can do to team ERA.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

It's amazing what a lack of defensive effort and morale in general can do to team ERA.

You left off the part about lacking ability.

[OriolesMagic83]

This is rock bottom until next week, until a new rock bottom will be reached.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Rock bottom will be when the trade deadline passes and Manny is still an Oriole.