Bundy velocity and farm system decline

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, waroriole said:

Exactly. I don’t see either being a regular on a contender. I don’t see any solid regular in our farm system. It’s just by comparison that those guys look acceptable. 

Hays should be ripping apart AA pitching, he's not.  As mentioned before some of the power numbers are there which is great.  

But to me, a TRUE prospect is a guy like Vlad Jr.  No doubt about that guy being a complete stud.  Granted, there are only a few guys like that in the minors at any given time but we don't have anyone who isn't surrounded by question marks.  

[24fps]

Bundy 4-seam avg. velocity per Brooks Baseball

4/16/17  92.4

7/1/17  92.7

9/12/17  92.6

4/4/18  92.2

4/26/18  92.5

5/13/18  92.5

[theocean]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I want to trade Jones because I don't think he's a Center Fielder anymore and I know Buck won't move him to a corner.

But I'm pretty OK with just not bringing him back.

That's kind of putting the cart before the horse, isn't it? Who are the O's going to start in CF tomorrow? Gentry?

It's complete speculation that Jones wouldn't move to RF. I understand if you're against bringing Jones back because you don't feel his contract will be worth his future production - but wanting rid of him because of speculation is a bit silly, isn't it?

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, theocean said:

That's kind of putting the cart before the horse, isn't it? Who are the O's going to start in CF tomorrow? Gentry?

It's complete speculation that Jones wouldn't move to RF. I understand if you're against bringing Jones back because you don't feel his contract will be worth his future production - but wanting rid of him because of speculation is a bit silly, isn't it?

Hence me being pretty OK with him staying until the end of the season.

[ChuckS]

7 minutes ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I agree on Sedlock but for the most part you are undervaluing some of our top prospects. Stewart is more than a "cup of coffee" guy in particular.

For sure.  Stewart will play multiples seasons in the big leagues.  Whether he is an everyday player or more of a reserve outfielder remains to be seen, but he's no Christian Walker.  

[glenn__davis]

11 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Hays should be ripping apart AA pitching, he's not.  As mentioned before some of the power numbers are there which is great.  

But to me, a TRUE prospect is a guy like Vlad Jr.  No doubt about that guy being a complete stud.  Granted, there are only a few guys like that in the minors at any given time but we don't have anyone who isn't surrounded by question marks.  

If your criteria for a prospect is Vlad Jr. or nothing, then sure, the Orioles don't have any good prospects.

But the All-Star game has many players each year who weren't elite prospects, and we all know many can't-miss prospects that missed.  There's no need to overcompensate and say that none of the O's prospects are anything special just because they're not a top 5 player.

[Luke-OH]

12 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

If your criteria for a prospect is Vlad Jr. or nothing, then sure, the Orioles don't have any good prospects.

But the All-Star game has many players each year who weren't elite prospects, and we all know many can't-miss prospects that missed.  There's no need to overcompensate and say that none of the O's prospects are anything special just because they're not a top 5 player.

If the criteria is Vlad Jr, no one but the Blue Jays has a good prospect. Dude is hitting the ball 117mph as a teenager.

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

If your criteria for a prospect is Vlad Jr. or nothing, then sure, the Orioles don't have any good prospects.

But the All-Star game has many players each year who weren't elite prospects, and we all know many can't-miss prospects that missed.  There's no need to overcompensate and say that none of the O's prospects are anything special just because they're not a top 5 player.

For the record I don't think there are a "few guys" like Vlad Jr in the minors at any given time.

Kid is 19 and putting up a 405/452/667 line at AA.

[Moose Milligan]

19 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

If your criteria for a prospect is Vlad Jr. or nothing, then sure, the Orioles don't have any good prospects.

But the All-Star game has many players each year who weren't elite prospects, and we all know many can't-miss prospects that missed.  There's no need to overcompensate and say that none of the O's prospects are anything special just because they're not a top 5 player.

I think you missed the part where I said there's only a few guys (aka can't miss prospects) in the minors at any given time.

We've gone back and forth over this before.  I have no problem saying I don't trust the Orioles to do anything correctly, especially when it comes to scouting, drafting and developing.  They've graduated some key players to the majors, this is true.  However, the system is consistently ranked in the bottom half (or even bottom third) of any reputable ranking system.  It's not a deep system, it hasn't been for years and I think we can agree on that.

[DocJJ]

Why are the O's never in on guys like Guererro Jr?     He signed for $3.9 million.   We could have paid that....   Unless there's a superstar guy that just happens to luckily fall on our heads in the draft (see Pittsburgh choosing Jameson Taillon instead of Manny Machado) we seem to miss on the best young players.   

 

Jonathan Schoop I suppose is an exception....

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, DocJJ said:

Why are the O's never in on guys like Guererro Jr?     He signed for $3.9 million.   We could have paid that....   Unless there's a superstar guy that just happens to luckily fall on our heads in the draft (see Pittsburgh choosing Jameson Taillon instead of Manny Machado) we seem to miss on the best young players.   

 

Jonathan Schoop I suppose is an exception....

 

 

Angelos.

[glenn__davis]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think you missed the part where I said there's only a few guys (aka can't miss prospects) in the minors at any given time.

We've gone back and forth over this before.  I have no problem saying I don't trust the Orioles to do anything correctly, especially when it comes to scouting, drafting and developing.  They've graduated some key players to the majors, this is true.  However, the system is consistently ranked in the bottom half (or even bottom third) of any reputable ranking system.  It's not a deep system, it hasn't been for years and I think we can agree on that.

And we've gone over the reasons for that and why I disagree with your feelings on their drafting, and that is fine.  I respect your right to your opinion, even if it's wrong

My only point is, without question there are some that overrate the O's prospects (as every fanbase does), but that doesn't mean we need to overcompensate the other way and downplay them either.  What Austin Hays did last year was pretty special.  You don't see too many guys put up numbers like he did as a 21-year old at AA, and especially not those who are still above average fielders.  That was really impressive.  It's OK to say that.  Doesn't guarantee anything at all regarding major league success, but for some to state he doesn't even profile as a regular in the majors - come on now.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

And we've gone over the reasons for that and why I disagree with your feelings on their drafting, and that is fine.  I respect your right to your opinion, even if it's wrong

My only point is, without question there are some that overrate the O's prospects (as every fanbase does), but that doesn't mean we need to overcompensate the other way and downplay them either.  What Austin Hays did last year was pretty special.  You don't see too many guys put up numbers like he did as a 21-year old at AA, and especially not those who are still above average fielders.  That was really impressive.  It's OK to say that.  Doesn't guarantee anything at all regarding major league success, but for some to state he doesn't even profile as a regular in the majors - come on now.

Well you can say I'm wrong, I'll still point to farm system rankings   You can tell me that the Orioles are good at stocking a farm system and I'll believe you when they're in the top half.

I agree, what Hays did last year was fantastic.  However, IMO, it's slightly concerning that after what he did last year and a look at big league pitching, he's not killing it in AA.  

I'm not saying he doesn't profile, I'm not saying he's a bust.  I'm just saying I was expecting more.  Honestly, I was expecting Santander to be sent down after 44 games or so, Hays to be called up after picking up right where he left off last year in AA.  

 

 

[glenn__davis]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well you can say I'm wrong, I'll still point to farm system rankings   You can tell me that the Orioles are good at stocking a farm system and I'll believe you when they're in the top half.

I agree, what Hays did last year was fantastic.  However, IMO, it's slightly concerning that after what he did last year and a look at big league pitching, he's not killing it in AA.  

I'm not saying he doesn't profile, I'm not saying he's a bust.  I'm just saying I was expecting more.  Honestly, I was expecting Santander to be sent down after 44 games or so, Hays to be called up after picking up right where he left off last year in AA.  

 

 

I never said they were good at stocking a farm system.  It's nearly impossible to have a high farm system ranking when you ignore the international market and are repeatedly giving up high draft picks.  That is my entire point.  All I've said is that the domestic drafting has been OK given all of the disadvantages that they have to deal with.   I'm not talking about the organization as a whole - I'm talking, specifically, about the department responsible for domestic drafting.  Honestly the fact that our systems is not dead last given all of the constraints on it is fairly impressive.

I certainly have no problems with your concerns about Hays, and I didn't mean to imply that you were the one who said he wasn't a regular, but others in this thread have said so.

[Moose Milligan]

11 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

I never said they were good at stocking a farm system.  It's nearly impossible to have a high farm system ranking when you ignore the international market and are repeatedly giving up high draft picks.  That is my entire point.  All I've said is that the domestic drafting has been OK given all of the disadvantages that they have to deal with.   I'm not talking about the organization as a whole - I'm talking, specifically, about the department responsible for domestic drafting.  Honestly the fact that our systems is not dead last given all of the constraints on it is fairly impressive.

I certainly have no problems with your concerns about Hays, and I didn't mean to imply that you were the one who said he wasn't a regular, but others in this thread have said so.

In regards to your first paragraph...yep, but that's their fault.  They choose to fight with one hand tied behind their backs at all times.  They choose to be stupid.  You're right, they should probably be dead last but they're not leaps and bounds better.  The constraints are self imposed.  If they weren't self imposed, I'd happily agree with you.  They choose not to play in international (really, south american) markets, they give up high draft picks.  Those are choices.  And so when the cupboard is bare, they have no one to blame but themselves.  I can't get excited and give this team a pass from my POV for being perpetually stupid.

I wouldn't be concerned with Hays if this were a few games but it's getting to a point where he's been performing this way for a good chunk of the season.