Orioles: Most inept organization in all of profesional sports?

[wildbillhiccup]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I do not think that the tough early schedule and a few injuries can be used to justify a 5-11 record.   I’m not sure the team is this bad, but they’ve dug themselves a nice hole and really couldn’t afford to do that.  

On the offensive and defensive side I think they are this bad.  They're giving regular at bats to players like Gentry, Santander, Valencia, Alvarez, Davis, and Beckham and with the exception of Davis they're all bad defensively. I don't think any of these guys are full time players on a good offensive team. 

 

[esmd]

10 hours ago, atomic said:

They  just didn't want to pay Trumbo 9 million dollars.   And obviously no one else did or the Orioles wouldn't have gotten him for what they did. 

 

10 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Trumbo only does one thing well and that is hit home runs.  Except Trumbo is 32 years old now, and his days as an above average home run hitter are coming to an end.

I liked the trade at the time because I was assuming Trumbo's was CD's replacement.  Signing both Trumbo and Davis to multiple year contracts isn't the way you build a well rounded baseball team.  

 

10 hours ago, atomic said:

Well it wouldn't have been as bad but we had Mancini coming up.  How many first basemen do you need? 

 

10 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Well let's see if you look at 1B/DH, the Orioles currently have Davis, Trumbo, Mancini, Valencia and Alvarez.  With Trumbo being the only player not currently on the 25 man roster.  

Agreed on all of that.  I was fine with the Trumbo deal, even when they eventually re-signed Davis.   I wouldn't have re-signed Trumbo, and would've rather platooned El Toro and Mancini at DH, at least until Mancini showed that he could play every day.  They would've had the comp pick for Trumbo, and saved 12mil/year, or whatever is is exactly that he's making.  the Davis deal has proven to be a disaster, but I don't think anyone expected him to fall off this badly.  Valencia and Alvarez would make a good DH platoon, or at least they should.  But when roster issues and injury force you to play them in the field, that's when you run into trouble.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

On the offensive and defensive side I think they are this bad.  They're giving regular at bats to players like Gentry, Santander, Valencia, Alvarez, Davis, and Beckham and with the exception of Davis they're all bad defensively. I don't think any of these guys are full time players on a good offensive team. 

 

They are clearly not this bad on offense.    They are not going to average 3.19 runs/game.    But they could be below average.   

[foxfield]

17 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

This board is entirely too obsessed with who gets credit and who should shoulder blame. 

But only because it is unclear.   That is important because in a well run organization, it would not be.

12 hours ago, esmd said:

I don't know how Buck gets all the blame for Davis.  Seems DD and especially PGA had just as big a part as re-signing him as Buck did, if not more.  I seem to recall reports of PGA actually having dinner with Davis and negotiating with Boras directly.

IMO, the roster is flawed in several key areas, and while Buck certainly has a role in that, it's just as much DD, Brady, the ownership, etc.  Buck being the manager is the least of this team's problems.  Plus, we've got a bunch of young kids about to hit the bigs, and I think Buck is the right guy to teach them how to be major leaguers.

The Orioles had a stretch where the exceeded expectations and could well do so again if everything goes exceedingly well.  The problem is that the organization is poorly run.  Blame the manager, blame the GM, blame the player.  Leadership and accountability are what is lacking.  

Buck cant win without a talented team

DD cant cant build a 25 or 40 man roster if half of them are selected for him.

Sure it makes it easy for us to blame.  And as fans we want to blame someone.  Chris Davis would love to hit 50 homers...this year, not for the rest of his contract.  What is broken is organizational.  A lot will be told about the future of this franchise this year.  If I were John Angelos or Peter Angelos, I would hire a GM first...DD, Brady, Steve from down the street, and I would give him the ability to make the baseball decisions.  ALL OF THEM.

I fear that Buck will be the first contract and while I adore Buck, I think that would be a devastatingly poor move.

[Moose Milligan]

50 minutes ago, foxfield said:

But only because it is unclear.   That is important because in a well run organization, it would not be.

Well, it's always unclear.  No franchise in any major sport puts it all out on front-street for the public.  There's always a degree of speculation no matter the team, no matter the sport.

[wildbillhiccup]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

They are clearly not this bad on offense.    They are not going to average 3.19 runs/game.    But they could be below average.   

I read this as "so they're bad, but they're not really really really bad".

[foxfield]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, it's always unclear.  No franchise in any major sport puts it all out on front-street for the public.  There's always a degree of speculation no matter the team, no matter the sport.

Unclear to the public, yes.  When the NY Yankees nearly rode a team of young guns to the WS, the GM decided his manager was not part of the future.  He let him go.  When the Boston Red Sox won the AL East but failed to advance, their GM decided the manager was not part of the future.  Ownership may well have weighed in on both of those fronts.  And yes, both of those managers probably weighed in on roster decisions with their GM's during their tenure.  But the roles and accountability were defined, even if the clarity of that definition was a surprise to both managers.

Dan Duquette, no matter what you or I think of his abilities, does not have the ability to control his roster, much less the staff below him.  That is not speculation although in fairness, the amount of his restrictions remain unclear.  Your point above is accurate that there is a degree of speculation and I agree.  However, in dismissing my point that all franchises are unclear, you casually lump every sport and every franchise into the same bucket.  Leadership will always have degrees of clarity and to the extent that you are correct, I would expand your point to being accurate in the business world and even to government.

All of that misses the point.  The Baltimore Orioles have a general manager who does not possess the authority to make roster decisions or leadership decisions without the approval of some of those below him.  When that happens, in baseball or other sports, it takes near perfection for things to work.  I am not saying the Orioles should fire DD or Buck.  What I am saying is that after last season, when the Orioles were in contention until September, the two teams atop the AL East assessed their teams and fired their managers.  Either or both of those decisions could turn out to be poor.   But one thing is certain, the Baltimore Orioles made no such assessment because it was not part of the GM's discretion. 

That leads us to debate the woes of the Orioles and who is to blame, DD or Buck or Brady.  
 

The answer is and always has been Peter Angelos.  That should not be unclear at all.

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I read this as "so they're bad, but they're not really really really bad".

More like, “they could be bad.”    I don’t know yet.   Before the season, I expected them to be about average.     Now it looks like they could be worse than I expected, but it’s still too early to say for sure.    It’s a streaky team.

[webbrick2010]

How can anyone ever take Buck seriously again when he continues to play Chris Davis against LH pitching?

Tonight was another winnable game where perhaps not having an automatic out 6th in the lineup might have made a difference.

[25 Nuggets]

This team could lose 100 games this year and I wouldn't fire Buck.  I'd fire the players first.

[25 Nuggets]

3 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

How can anyone ever take Buck seriously again when he continues to play Chris Davis against LH pitching?

Tonight was another winnable game where perhaps not having an automatic out 6th in the lineup might have made a difference.

This is a team-wide problem right now.  The offense sucks - there are no good options.  Machado, Mancini, Alvarez and maybe Sisco are the only guys hitting.

[pastorfan]

5 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

How can anyone ever take Buck seriously again when he continues to play Chris Davis against LH pitching?

Tonight was another winnable game where perhaps not having an automatic out 6th in the lineup might have made a difference.

If, in fact, Buck was behind bringing Davis back then he probably feels that he has no choice but to play him. But yes, it is very hard to watch. 

[MDK02]

The 2018 season is close to being over. You can’t earn yourself a playoff spot in April but you sure can eliminate yourself...it’s almost getting to that point.  

[atomic]

I didn't watch today's game but why didn't Buck pinch hit Sisco for Joseph in 9th?  Is he purposely trying to lose? 

[Hank Scorpio]

Just now, atomic said:

I didn't watch today's game but why didn't Buck pinch hit Sisco for Joseph in 9th?  Is he purposely trying to lose? 

He did. Sisco flew out to LF.