Duquette: "Extensive Conversations a Couple Years Ago" with Manny

[Malike]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Yep, I think he would have been a lot better off playing third this year and then trying to convince teams he can still play short.

Absolutely agree. He's not getting a 10 year deal at Short after this fiasco. Not for the money he thinks, anyway. -19 DRS. Holy cow.

[Beef Supreme]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

Trout has made 77 million thus far in the bigs and produced 61 WAR this costing the Angels 792,000 per 1 WAR

Manny has made 34 million and produced 29.6 WAR thus costing us 870,000 per 1 WAR

Trout has provided more value obviously, but we have gotten plenty of value from Manny too. 

Your math is way wrong. Using the numbers you supplied...

Trout = $1.26MM/WAR

Machado = $1.15MM/WAR

Machado has provided more WAR per dollar than Trout thus far.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Malike said:

Absolutely agree. He's not getting a 10 year deal at Short after this fiasco. Not for the money he thinks, anyway. -19 DRS. Holy cow.

I wonder if he just assumed it would all come back to him so he didn't put in the work that he should?

[Malike]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I wonder if he just assumed it would all come back to him so he didn't put in the work that he should?

That may be the case, he might have just outgrown the position as well. His UZR/150 is horror movie scary. He's like a statue out there.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Malike said:

That may be the case, he might have just outgrown the position as well. His UZR/150 is horror movie scary. He's like a statue out there.

Yep.  I'm just curious that if he slimmed down a bit and put in a lot of work in the offseason if he could still be a viable shortstop or if those days are over.

I'm guessing he could propel himself to average for a few years if he put in the work.

[OriolesMagic83]

Good to see the O's are spending valuable time and manpower making up excuses about why they didn't sign Manny instead of concentrating on trading him.  Meeting of the "Why we didn't sign Manny" committee tomorrow at 2 p.m.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Good to see the O's are spending valuable time and manpower making up excuses about why they didn't sign Manny instead of concentrating on trading him.  Meeting of the "Why we didn't sign Manny" committee tomorrow at 2 p.m.

How valuable is their time?

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, Fuzzball22 said:

So at 10 million per WAR Trout should be paid 90 million? It seems to be a much different market then when Cano signed. I find it hard to believe anybody would pay Manny 30 million a year let alone 40 million. Manny currently has a 1.6 WAR according to baseball reference.

Fangraphs has a  discussion about Mike Trout relative to these calculations ...coming up with an AAV for Trout that would be relevant to any other player is not really feasible.  But yes, that is his value using these calculated guesses. 

Manny is going to have a number of high paying suitors too...LA, Philly, Cubs, Yankees, etc.   We shall see.  One thing for sure...it is good to be young and Manny!  lol. 

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, Beef Supreme said:

Your math is way wrong. Using the numbers you supplied...

Trout = $1.26MM/WAR

Machado = $1.15MM/WAR

Machado has provided more WAR per dollar than Trout thus far.

oops....upside down math...thanks for the correction. 

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

Your math is way wrong. Using the numbers you supplied...

Trout = $1.26MM/WAR

Machado = $1.15MM/WAR

Machado has provided more WAR per dollar than Trout thus far.

The only reason this is true is because Trout is now in his first free agent season, so he’s making twice what Manny ever made.    But if you want to make an apples to apples comparison, you should exclude this year for Trout.

Trout: 54.2 rWAR for $43 mm = $790 k per 1 WAR

Manny: 29.6 rWAR for $26 mm = $880,000 per 1 WAR.

Note I did not count the $8 mm Manny will make in the 2nd half of this season, which undoubtedly will make his $ per WAR number go up.

By the way, the numbers tntoriole supplied counted Trout’s and Manny’s entire 2018 salaries, but the season is only half over.

[Barnaby Graves]

 

5 hours ago, Malike said:

Absolutely agree. He's not getting a 10 year deal at Short after this fiasco. Not for the money he thinks, anyway. -19 DRS. Holy cow.

Thank you for the stat.  With my eyes I knew he was bad but did not realize that stats were so brutal too.

[Chavez Ravine]

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yep, I think he would have been a lot better off playing third this year and then trying to convince teams he can still play short.

That's what you hire people to tell you when you are 25. Trouble is, when you are 25 you typically don't know how to hire the right people. Plus you are 25 and apt to tell them: screw you!

[Malike]

13 minutes ago, Barnaby Graves said:

 

Thank you for the stat.  With my eyes I knew he was bad but did not realize that stats were so brutal too.

Worst part is, all of my Yankee fan friends who have been getting my Jeter was a horrible shortstop for over a decade from me happen to be throwing it back in my face right now and they aren't wrong. Ugh.

[Chavez Ravine]

12 minutes ago, Barnaby Graves said:

 

Thank you for the stat.  With my eyes I knew he was bad but did not realize that stats were so brutal too.

At least I can rationalize the Adam Jones defensive crater....the trajectory was obvious.... if a bit more precipitous  than expected. On the other hand, going from...."I am privileged to be on this earth to watch Manny at third" to "WTF?!?!?!" has left the baseball part of me hollow inside.

[jtschrei]

Yeah. Manny has no range at SS and he was much better at 3B. I'm 99% sure he'll be playing 3B next year... either for the Spankees, the Angels, or the Cubs.