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Orioles to be more active in International Free Agent Market

NCRaven

By NCRaven
in Orioles Talk

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ISU94 Major Leaguer Rising Star

ISU94

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8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm more interested in tempering expectations for Gaston than I am propping up VVM.  If VVM comps to Gentry or the other names we have heard and he is #1, what is a reasonable expectation for Gaston?

 

As I stated, there's likely going to be a several guys from this class that end up being big. But they are volatile and require a lot of work. VVM is a guy that doesn't require a lot of work and is close as is. That's the only reason why he was #1. He looks to be an MLB caliber player that can be here soon and potentially be a solid starter or what most have said is a good 4th OF. That has value.

These lists/scouting reports are on young kids that are super volatile. So it makes sense to see a guy who is more of a sure thing and solid himself to be up there.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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9 minutes ago, ISU94 said:

Because he's farther along and more of a sure thing to make it to the bigs. 

If we're talking strictly upside, VVM isn't with a lot of these guys. Hell, his brother definitely has bigger upside than VVM. VVM is heralded more for his defensive play and I've seen some talk about him as a 4th OF.

None of this is to slam him just because he didn't come here, but the excitement for VVM and co. was definitely more so (at least from me) that fact that we are actually involved in the IFA market and going after top guys. Never thought of VVM as some game changer for us or a massive piece for the future. 

Folks make it seem like VVM doesn't have any upside.

If VVM can hit, and yes it is a pretty big if, he can be a solid above average MLB player.

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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3 hours ago, mdbdotcom said:

All we did was increase the amount of money the Marlins end up paying. 

I'm still glad we unloaded O'Day. Wish they'd have taken Trumbo, too.

Well if Bundy has a big season next year maybe we could trade him and Trumbo for some international slots we will never use.

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Chavez Ravine Hangout Grand Counsel

Chavez Ravine

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Assuming the reports are correct and the Marlins payed in excess of 5M for VVM, that puts them in the ballpark of spending on a top 10 draft pick......somewhere between Nick Madrigal (6.4M) and Jonathan India (5.3M). The highest international signing to date has been Orelvis Martinez (3.5M). You can make a strong argument that the 5M + the Marlins payed is still well within the bargain ballpark, considering the cost of what an actual MLB talent is. Still, it kinda seems like the Marlins were emulating how the Orioles of old would have gone about things if they had actually participated in the international market. Particularly since it seems like the brothers and dad wanted to hang out in Miami. They may have come from a socialist country, but they found themselves a good agent.

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Number5 Hangout Grand Counsel

Number5

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9 hours ago, TonySoprano said:

$5M total for the Mesa brothers.  The Orioles and Marlins have more than that in their international pools.  This goes to show that it wasn't an issue of Baltimore not having enough money, and the Zoellner trade made zero difference in all of this. 
They preferred Miami.  Period.

Roch - http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2018/10/orioles-wont-sign-the-mesa-brothers.html

Tony, from what I read, the $5 million figure was approximated for VVM alone, and VMJ reportedly got close to a million.  I haven't seen it definitively stated, though.  Even so, your point would still be valid.

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Going Underground Hangout Grand Counsel

Going Underground

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6 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well 3 months ago, they were all in.  They traded for slot money and wanted to get in on VVM and VMJ.  They must have liked them enough at some point to stockpile enough money to be able to outspend everyone else.  

I think they wanted to get O'day 's $20 million off the books.Once Atlanta took the contract,the prospects coming back were greatly reduced . They had to at least play it as getting international money to use this year..As Meoli from the Sun has said many times of the Gausman trade that getting rid of the O'Day contract was a major reason for the trade 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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20 minutes ago, Chavez Ravine said:

Assuming the reports are correct and the Marlins payed in excess of 5M for VVM, that puts them in the ballpark of spending on a top 10 draft pick......somewhere between Nick Madrigal (6.4M) and Jonathan India (5.3M). The highest international signing to date has been Orelvis Martinez (3.5M). You can make a strong argument that the 5M + the Marlins payed is still well within the bargain ballpark, considering the cost of what an actual MLB talent is. Still, it kinda seems like the Marlins were emulating how the Orioles of old would have gone about things if they had actually participated in the international market. Particularly since it seems like the brothers and dad wanted to hang out in Miami. They may have come from a socialist country, but they found themselves a good agent.

It did cost them more than it should have under the current system.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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9 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

I think they wanted to get O'day 's $20 million off the books.Once Atlanta took the contract,the prospects coming back were greatly reduced . They had to at least play it as getting international money to use this year..As Meoli from the Sun has said many times of the Gausman trade that getting rid of the O'Day contract was a major reason for the trade 

Shame they didn't have enough sense to let O'Day go to the Nats as a free agent.

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FanSince88 Major Leaguer

FanSince88

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They should have given Gausman more of a chance to build his value before trading him.  He's a second half pitcher.  Let him play out 2018 and have his typical good 2nd half to boost his stats.  And then flip him at the winter meetings this December.  Guarantee you we get way more return in that scenario.  

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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2 minutes ago, FanSince88 said:

They should have given Gausman more of a chance to build his value before trading him.  He's a second half pitcher.  Let him play out 2018 and have his typical good 2nd half to boost his stats.  And then flip him at the winter meetings this December.  Guarantee you we get way more return in that scenario.  

That doesn't get O'Day off the books.

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ISU94 Major Leaguer Rising Star

ISU94

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2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Folks make it seem like VVM doesn't have any upside.

If VVM can hit, and yes it is a pretty big if, he can be a solid above average MLB player.

Of course if a certain player does better than anticipated/what people expect he could be better than the current projection. You can make that argument for most prospects.

VVM has upside, but again, he was ranked where he was due to how far along he is/more of a sure thing than the 16/17 year olds in the class. Not due strictly to talent/upside. So I wouldn't bash this class just because he was ranked #1 and scouting reports aren't all over the guy.

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

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2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Folks make it seem like VVM doesn't have any upside.

If VVM can hit, and yes it is a pretty big if, he can be a solid above average MLB player.

Well sure, but since he can’t fail here first, obviously his upside has already been obtained. 

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Malike Hangout Grand Counsel

Malike

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8 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm more interested in tempering expectations for Gaston than I am propping up VVM.  If VVM comps to Gentry or the other names we have heard and he is #1, what is a reasonable expectation for Gaston?

 

I honestly don't know. Did VVM play in the Cuban pro league? He's clearly the more polished player. You never know what you get with a 16 year old with an electric arm. Anywhere from Brandon Erbe to Clayton Kershaw, I suppose. If Gaston were 22 who knows where he would have been on this list. If Mesa were 16 would he be number 1? He OPS'd .506 in his age 16 season. Trying to project Gaston is like trying to predict the lottery numbers. If they can get him for 1-1.5M that's fine by me. If he turns out to be nothing, oh well. If he turns into a player, great.

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