Machado comments after trade

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, panick said:

If you are referring to my post about Davis playing so much and Showalter's favoritism, hopefully it will change something in the future - that being that Showalter is no longer the manager of the O's.

My post was in response to the previous post that said Showalter should be the chef, meaning that he should be making the on-field decisions. The negatives I referred to have been long-running and on-going. I haven't been one of the posters who are still complaining about not using Britton in that play-off game, although I do agree with those posters. That was a one-time, extremely bad mistake. Do you really think that if Showalter is the O's manager next year that, barring an injury, Davis will not be in the starting lineup at least 140 games? And that barring resignations, Coolbaugh and McDowell will not have their current coaching positions? 

It has been pointed out in several threads that Showalter plays favorites, and that has hurt the team. The way to help the team in the future is to make sure Showalter is not part of the team.

I agree with several of your points, but Buck can’t really be accused of keeping coaches too long. The pitching coach position in particular has been a bit of a revolving door. 

[LookitsPuck]

8 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

Huh?

I’m saying that the talent on the roster isn’t the responsibility of the manager. It’s the responsibility of the GM. Put any other manager on this club and you think this club isn’t still 30+ games under .500? Buck isn’t the problem here.

[Dark Helmet]

1 hour ago, LookitsPuck said:

I’m saying that the talent on the roster isn’t the responsibility of the manager. It’s the responsibility of the GM. Put any other manager on this club and you think this club isn’t still 30+ games under .500? Buck isn’t the problem here.

But what is Bucks problem is mis-managing those players...which he has done alot. Buck has worn out his welcome and has lost the team. He isn't "the" problem. But he's part of it.

[Dark Helmet]

1 hour ago, LookitsPuck said:

I’m saying that the talent on the roster isn’t the responsibility of the manager. It’s the responsibility of the GM. Put any other manager on this club and you think this club isn’t still 30+ games under .500? Buck isn’t the problem here.

And I do agree that no manager could do better with this roster. I just don't think Buck is the right manager for a rebuild. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

And I do agree that no manager could do better with this roster. I just don't think Buck is the right manager for a rebuild. 

I think a lot of managers could have done better with this roster, but that Buck probably would do well with  a rebuild.  So, the exact opposite of what you said.  

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, LookitsPuck said:

I’m saying that the talent on the roster isn’t the responsibility of the manager. It’s the responsibility of the GM. Put any other manager on this club and you think this club isn’t still 30+ games under .500? Buck isn’t the problem here.

I understandwhat you are saying now, but I disagree that Buck doesn’t influence the roster. And he and the coaches certainly are responsible for team performance. The whole team has basically underperformed. The whole roster including many players that were good last year. No way does he deserve to be absolved of responsibility. 

[Dark Helmet]

28 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think a lot of managers could have done better with this roster, but that Buck probably would do well with  a rebuild.  So, the exact opposite of what you said.  

I'd personally rather see Duquette stay over Buck. And one has to go. Buck has had too much influence on building this flawed roster. Though a case could be made that this year's team was much more talented than the 2012 WC team.

[panick]

6 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

I agree with several of your points, but Buck can’t really be accused of keeping coaches too long. The pitching coach position in particular has been a bit of a revolving door. 

Yes, but how many of those coaches has Showalter sent packing? I don't remember the names, but one coach quit during the season saying he was retiring, and after a short time, took a job with another team. Wasn't it the last pitching and bullpen coaches that quit during the offseason to take jobs with the Braves?

[LookitsPuck]

8 minutes ago, panick said:

Yes, but how many of those coaches has Showalter sent packing? I don't remember the names, but one coach quit during the season saying he was retiring, and after a short time, took a job with another team. Wasn't it the last pitching and bullpen coaches that quit during the offseason to take jobs with the Braves?

Dave Wallace and Dom Chiti? Wallace retired as a pitching coach and joined the Braves as a special assistant. And Chiti ended up as their director of pitching. Neither of them are the Braves major league pitching coach.

 

[Ohfan67]

31 minutes ago, panick said:

Yes, but how many of those coaches has Showalter sent packing? I don't remember the names, but one coach quit during the season saying he was retiring, and after a short time, took a job with another team. Wasn't it the last pitching and bullpen coaches that quit during the offseason to take jobs with the Braves?

Five pitching coaches since he was hired and that’s not counting the one he inherited. Does that sound like too much loyalty to pitching coaches? Look, I’m in favor of not re-signing Buck. He was great for the Orioles, but it’s time for a change and time for a manager that the GM hires. But too much loyalty to coaches is not one of his sins. If anything the revolving door at pitching coach is a major weakness. 

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Five pitching coaches since he was hired and that’s not counting the one he inherited. Does that sound like too much loyalty to pitching coaches? Look, I’m in favor of not re-signing Buck. He was great for the Orioles, but it’s time for a change and time for a manager that the GM hires. But too much loyalty to coaches is not one of his sins. If anything the revolving door at pitching coach is a major weakness. 

I only count four, not five.   And at least a few of those coaches chose to leave — Connor and Wallace.    

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I only count four, not five.   And at least a few of those coaches chose to leave — Connor and Wallace.    

I may have accidently counted the guy he inherited. Some may have left without being shown the door, but regardless the data does not support the idea that he is  overly loyal to coaches. 

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I only count four, not five.   And at least a few of those coaches chose to leave — Connor and Wallace.    

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bal-orioles-pitching-coaches-through-the-years-pictures-photogallery.html

 

Five if you add McDowell to this list. 

[panick]

12 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

Five pitching coaches since he was hired and that’s not counting the one he inherited. Does that sound like too much loyalty to pitching coaches? Look, I’m in favor of not re-signing Buck. He was great for the Orioles, but it’s time for a change and time for a manager that the GM hires. But too much loyalty to coaches is not one of his sins. If anything the revolving door at pitching coach is a major weakness. 

Did you read the question I asked in the first line of my post? You didn't address the fact that Showalter did not get rid of those coaches. Two of them made the decision to leave. 

This issue of Showalter's "guys" has been discussed in other threads. His guys are players and coaches.

[Ohfan67]

14 minutes ago, panick said:

Did you read the question I asked in the first line of my post? You didn't address the fact that Showalter did not get rid of those coaches. Two of them made the decision to leave. 

This issue of Showalter's "guys" has been discussed in other threads. His guys are players and coaches.

Did you not look at the evidence? He's had five pitching coaches since 2011. That's high turnover. The high turnover is actually a real concern. They did not all leave on their own accord. It's also not unusual for folks to say they are leaving when in fact their contracts were not renewed. Which coaches has he been too loyal to? You haven't named a coach yet. Coolbaugh? Has he been too loyal to Kirby or  Dickerson?  Dickerson was in the Orioles organization before Showalter was hired. Do you think Wayne Kirby is a problem?

 

I'm not trying to be a smart ***. I'm just trying to figure out the criticism. I think there's zero evidence that he is too loyal to coaches. It is all speculation IMO. He is very loyal to his veteran players. I agree he can be too loyal, although with some contracts like Davis he has to basically stay the course while the organization prays for a miracle. I'm sure he has some loyalty to his coaches. Who wouldn't? But I think Coolbaugh is the only coach who should be let go if Buck stays (just to be clear, I would not re-sign Buck if I was the GM and I would have fired him in late May).