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Schoop, Service Time, and a Lesson on our Young Guys

BohKnowsBmore

By BohKnowsBmore
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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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9 hours ago, eddie83 said:

Who do you think will be the starting CF next year? I think it will be Mullins. 

The only advantage of waiting until September is if he gets sent down next year. Like Sisco this year he would not have to be down as long to get that service year back. 

I have no desire to see Mountcastle and Diaz rushed up here. Other than Mullins and Stewart who are both farther along ,I would hope the rest of the prospects aren’t here until mid 2019 at the earliest.  

I hope it Mullins. 

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BohKnowsBmore Hangout Grand Counsel

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2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm a firm believer in only playing service games with the guys you really think are going to amount to something.

I think the O's agree since Wieters is the only example I can think of them doing it.

I think it’s worth differentiating between “playing service games” and needlessly burning service time for no real reason. These guys could take their lumps at the ML level next year (And sept of this year) AND have that extra year. 

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BohKnowsBmore Hangout Grand Counsel

BohKnowsBmore

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2 hours ago, weams said:

Mullins does not have the upside impact of even a Jon Schoop. So no, Playing the waiting game on his service is foolish. When they are ready. They are. 

Specifically focusing on Mullins misses the point somewhat. If it’s one guy, and a lesser one at that, sure. Whatever. I’m more musing about the notion that Mullins AND Diaz AND Mointcastle AND other prospects should all be up now. That just seems destructive. 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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2 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

I think it’s worth differentiating between “playing service games” and needlessly burning service time for no real reason. These guys could take their lumps at the ML level next year (And sept of this year) AND have that extra year. 

Yea I don't think there is so much.

Seems like a lot of folks here are wanting to hold guys back when they should be getting their feet wet.

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BohKnowsBmore Hangout Grand Counsel

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2 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

The real lessen here is that the service time rule is counterproductive to the game and needs to be changed. I think there's also something to be said for letting younger players learn at the MLB level, if you're a team that has that luxury. 

That is a valid opinion. 

While it exists, though, i would prefer a pragmatic approach (or at least consideration) by the FO. 

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BohKnowsBmore Hangout Grand Counsel

BohKnowsBmore

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2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yea I don't think there is so much.

Seems like a lot of folks here are wanting to hold guys back when they should be getting their feet wet.

What is “should” in this context? Needed Experience or the principles of the service time system. 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

How is additional service time a factor for a player that ends up getting non-tendered?

 

I can’t tell if your question is facetious or serious.    Let’s say Schoop had been a Super-2 in 2017 instead of a full Arb 1 guy.   In that case, when non-tendered this year, the team signing him would have the ability to control him for two years even if only a one-year deal was offered.   So, I’d think he’d be slightly more attractive in that scenario.  

That said, I’m guessing if he’s a free agent this year, some team will offer him a 3+ year deal if he wants one.    But he may choose to play on a one-year deal and hope for a rebound season. 

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wildbillhiccup

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4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I can’t tell if your question is facetious or serious.    Let’s say Schoop had been a Super-2 in 2017 instead of a full Arb 1 guy.   In that case, when non-tendered this year, the team signing him would have the ability to control him for two years even if only a one-year deal was offered.   So, I’d think he’d be slightly more attractive in that scenario.  

That said, I’m guessing if he’s a free agent this year, some team will offer him a 3+ year deal if he wants one.    But he may choose to play on a one-year deal and hope for a rebound season. 

I guess if they non-tender him they're pretty much committing to Hiura at 2B next year.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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29 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I can’t tell if your question is facetious or serious.    Let’s say Schoop had been a Super-2 in 2017 instead of a full Arb 1 guy.   In that case, when non-tendered this year, the team signing him would have the ability to control him for two years even if only a one-year deal was offered.   So, I’d think he’d be slightly more attractive in that scenario.  

That said, I’m guessing if he’s a free agent this year, some team will offer him a 3+ year deal if he wants one.    But he may choose to play on a one-year deal and hope for a rebound season. 

I'm being serious, folks here obsess too much over service time when the truth is, teams might not even want the player for the full 6-7 years.

Most of the time it just isn't worth worrying about.

The O's don't have a single prospect that I would try and game the system for.  I'd much rather extend guys early.

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Just Regular Hangout Grand Counsel

Just Regular

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Dave Schoenfield made him #23 in next year's FA rankings, which sort of implies there's only about 20 guys teams care about becoming free agents.

I remember reading one aspect of Marvin Miller's genius was limiting free agency back in the 70's, and that Charlie Finley wanted to go whole hog, and said something like "Heck, make them all free agents".

This feels like inching towards Finley's view.

I'm trying to recollect if there's ever been a higher profile non-tender - it certainly will be another pain point for the next CBA.

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Ohfan67 Hangout Grand Counsel

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2 hours ago, OrioleDog said:

Dave Schoenfield made him #23 in next year's FA rankings, which sort of implies there's only about 20 guys teams care about becoming free agents.

I remember reading one aspect of Marvin Miller's genius was limiting free agency back in the 70's, and that Charlie Finley wanted to go whole hog, and said something like "Heck, make them all free agents".

This feels like inching towards Finley's view.

I'm trying to recollect if there's ever been a higher profile non-tender - it certainly will be another pain point for the next CBA.

Career 98 OPS+ And .294 OBP second basemen with little range. For ten million? That about sums it up. 

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