Assume that Duquette stays...

[Frobby]

Let’s assume that Dan Duquette stays.    How much rope do you give  him, and what are your criteria for measuring his progress?    Is your answer different for Duquette than it would be if we hired a new GM?

Personally, if he’s extended, I’d only want it to be for 2-3 years.    I don’t expect the O’s to field a winning team in that period.    But I’d want to see:

- Some good drafts that appear to be yielding impact players who realistically can form the core of the next winning team.

- Serious progress in our international program, both in terms of actual players acquired, scouts and infrastructure.

- Player acquisition decisions that exhibit a renewed commitment to defense, fundamentally sound play, and team-oriented play.

- Hiring some younger administrative talent for the front office.

- Overall, a team that looks poised to return to winning in the next year or two after that period (i.e, 2022 or 2023) and capable of sustaining being a winning team for a long time.

Honestly, I’d probably be a bit tougher in judging Duquette than I would some new GM.    After all, he has had 8 years and wasn’t strong enough to prevent us from going into this ditch, no matter how much of the direct blame you put on him. So he has the burden of proof.   

Needless to say, the owners need to let him do his job, but he’s got to convince them to let him do that, or he’s not the guy.   

[wildcard]

I don't think Dan deserves to be extended.   So I am not ready to assume he stays.    I am not saying whether he will or will not.  I just will not go there yet.

Gausman, Davis, Jimenez, Gallado, Trumbo.   You can say some of these moves were ownership, but it was Dan's job to stop ownership from making foolish moves.  He failed.

[mdbdotcom]

DD said he expects the rebuild to take three years, so I expect that's how long his contract will be.

[theocean]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Let’s assume that Dan Duquette stays.    How much rope do you give  him, and what are your criteria for measuring his progress?    Is your answer different for Duquette than it would be if we hired a new GM?

Personally, if he’s extended, I’d only want it to be for 2-3 years.    I don’t expect the O’s to field a winning team in that period.    But I’d want to see:

- Some good drafts that appear to be yielding impact players who realistically can form the core of the next winning team.

- Serious progress in our international program, both in terms of actual players acquired, scouts and infrastructure.

- Player acquisition decisions that exhibit a renewed commitment to defense, fundamentally sound play, and team-oriented play.

- Hiring some younger administrative talent for the front office.

- Overall, a team that looks poised to return to winning in the next year or two after that period (i.e, 2022 or 2023) and capable of sustaining being a winning team for a long time.

Honestly, I’d probably be a bit tougher in judging Duquette than I would some new GM.    After all, he has had 8 years and wasn’t strong enough to prevent us from going into this ditch, no matter how much of the direct blame you put on him. So he has the burden of proof.   

Needless to say, the owners need to let him do his job, but he’s got to convince them to let him do that, or he’s not the guy.   

I think that if he is extended, he just needs to be given an opportunity to do what he wants. It doesn't seem like he's been able to do that.

The GM is an employee of the owner. He was told by the owner to use all franchise resources to put a winning product on the field, which was accomplished from 2012-2016. Now, the owner - or acting owners - have told him to cut payroll significantly so they can invest internationally and in other developmental areas. He accomplished that at the deadline.

So, all in all, Duquette has done everything he was directed to do well. If he's allowed to do what he wants, I think it'll be good. If he's hamstrung by ownership and whoever else, it probably won't work out. I don't really put the blame for the miserable 2018 Orioles on Duquette - I put it on Angelos, the guy who only hired a few pro scouts, didn't want to invest internationally, or in any of the other new scouting technologies that other teams are using.

[eddie83]

58 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't think Dan deserves to be extended.   So I am not ready to assume he stays.    I am not saying whether he will or will not.  I just will not go there yet.

Gausman, Davis, Jimenez, Gallado, Trumbo.   You can say some of these moves were ownership, but it was Dan's job to stop ownership from making foolish moves.  He failed.

Stopping ownership from doing what they want to is not how the real world works. 

[eddie83]

11 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

DD said he expects the rebuild to take three years, so I expect that's how long his contract will be.

I think this has been taking out of context. Dan said you need to have a 3 year plan. That does not mean that is how long a rebuild will take. 

[big_sparxx]

I'm not the least bit convinced. He may want the job, but the results of his tenure with the O's are not positive. Far too many square pegs in round holes, and on top of it, we have not improved at any point in any part of the organization. Some will say he didn't actually become a GM until it was too late, that he was handcuffed by an ownership that demanded things be done their way.

If ownership stands up and accepts responsibility for this, which they won't do, I would almost feel sorry for him. His inability to get the important deals done at the right time are his damning legacy. Either he couldn't make the deals because of ownership, which undermined him in the position completely and he should walk simply to save face, or he was incompetent and waited far too long to get the major deals done which clearly means his judgment must be questioned. Either way.... he needs to accept his role in this failure.

I don't see that changing. I don't see Dan as a guy who can break the dysfunction that has put this entire system in the hole.

There is no compromise here. If we don't/can't produce major league ready talent, we're going to be fishing in the wrong end of the talent pool. 

Sorry... but this organization needs a fresh start... top to bottom, and I don't see any of th current cast of characters as pieces of a new foundation from which to build upon.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

Stopping ownership from doing what they want to is not how the real world works. 

Its not how it did work, but Dan's job was to make sure the organization made good decisions.  Some of the most impactful ones didn't work.   HIs job was to guide ownership in those moves.  The results were and are poor.

[esmd]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

Let’s assume that Dan Duquette stays.    How much rope do you give  him, and what are your criteria for measuring his progress?    Is your answer different for Duquette than it would be if we hired a new GM?

Personally, if he’s extended, I’d only want it to be for 2-3 years.    I don’t expect the O’s to field a winning team in that period.    But I’d want to see:

- Some good drafts that appear to be yielding impact players who realistically can form the core of the next winning team.

- Serious progress in our international program, both in terms of actual players acquired, scouts and infrastructure.

- Player acquisition decisions that exhibit a renewed commitment to defense, fundamentally sound play, and team-oriented play.

- Hiring some younger administrative talent for the front office.

- Overall, a team that looks poised to return to winning in the next year or two after that period (i.e, 2022 or 2023) and capable of sustaining being a winning team for a long time.

Honestly, I’d probably be a bit tougher in judging Duquette than I would some new GM.    After all, he has had 8 years and wasn’t strong enough to prevent us from going into this ditch, no matter how much of the direct blame you put on him. So he has the burden of proof.   

Needless to say, the owners need to let him do his job, but he’s got to convince them to let him do that, or he’s not the guy.   

Pretty much agree with all of that.  If you keep him, you've got to give him 2-3 seasons to show signs of a turnaround. 

[Redskins Rick]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

I don't think Dan deserves to be extended.   So I am not ready to assume he stays.    I am not saying whether he will or will not.  I just will not go there yet.

Gausman, Davis, Jimenez, Gallado, Trumbo.   You can say some of these moves were ownership, but it was Dan's job to stop ownership from making foolish moves.  He failed.

WC,

Really.

Stop the owner, are you crazy.

Weams is pretty powerful here in OH, but can he stop Tony-OH?

There is not a GM in the business that can overrule their owner.

Ask Rizzo how that is working for him?

Pat Gillick left the Orioles, because of the meddling of the Owner.

 

[clapdiddy]

I think Duquette should get no more than 3 years.   I agree with Frobby's assessment of what we'll need to see in this organization.

If I were him, I would not take the job unless I was given the authority to hire the next manager and Brady Anderson would report to me. 

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

I think Duquette should get no more than 3 years.   I agree with Frobby's assessment of what we'll need to see in this organization.

If I were him, I would not take the job unless I was given the authority to hire the next manager and Brady Anderson would report to me. 

Unless he is sure he has another job waiting from him, I'm not sure he has the luxury of demanding requirements for him taking an extension. At the end of the day, you have to feed your family and I'm not sure Duquette wants to be running academy's again.

[Moose Milligan]

@wildcard @big_sparxx I'm assuming the playoff teams he oversaw and the pieces he added to them don't do anything for you in terms of good will?  My, how quickly we forget.

@wildcard you've really got an axe to grind.  DD is the one GM who's built a winning club here under Angelos since Gillick was here.  He's the one GM that might not have prevented ownership from doing dumb stuff 100% but he found a way to make it work for years.

 

[Redskins Rick]

25 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Unless he is sure he has another job waiting from him, I'm not sure he has the luxury of demanding requirements for him taking an extension. At the end of the day, you have to feed your family and I'm not sure Duquette wants to be running academy's again.

Dan Duquette according to google, has a net worth of 1.9 million.

Assuming this is right, then he shouldn't have to worry about feeding his family.

He did survive 10 years, between GM gigs.

Personally, I am okay keeping Dan on to rebuild. He has done more good than bad, and some of his bad, was Peter.

 

[wildcard]

52 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

WC,

Really.

Stop the owner, are you crazy.

Weams is pretty powerful here in OH, but can he stop Tony-OH?

There is not a GM in the business that can overrule their owner.

Ask Rizzo how that is working for him?

Pat Gillick left the Orioles, because of the meddling of the Owner.

 

A GM's job does not stop or overrule an owner.  His job is to use persuasively advise the owner to do the right thing.