Britton on the use of analytics in New York vs. Baltimore

[Tony-OH]

You guys are missing a name here, Sarah Gelles. Gelles has been in charge of analytics under Duquette since December 2011 when she was promoted from a baseball operations intern.

I don't know her at all, but everything I've ever heard about her by other people in the organization has been negative . Whoever they hire to be the VP of Baseball Operations needs to clean house and bring in actual successful Analytics people. It's embarrassing to hear how much better other organizations are with data and analytics.

Actually Gelles is one of Duquette's failures as GM.

[Redskins Rick]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

You guys are missing a name here, Sarah Gelles. Gelles has been in charge of analytics under Duquette since December 2011 when she was promoted from a baseball operations intern.

I don't know her at all, but everything I've ever heard about her by other people in the organization has been negative . Whoever they hire to be the VP of Baseball Operations needs to clean house and bring in actual successful Analytics people. It's embarrassing to hear how much better other organizations are with data and analytics.

Actually Gelles is one of Duquette's failures as GM.

Interesting.

Did you see this bit, 2 months ago?

Quote

I think their recent hiring of COO of business Operations John Vidalin, who has worked in every major sport, shows the team is going to work to be innovative as far as using technology, analytics, and getting fans in seats. Vidalin comes from the Miami Heat, who deeply use analytics and also make games an event people want to attend, whether they are sports fans or not.

https://thebaltimorewire.com/2018/07/19/baltimore-orioles-dan-duquette-future/

 

[pastorfan]

3 hours ago, Satyr3206 said:

Anyone can have all the data they can handle. Still have to execute.

Zach did quite well a few years ago. Certainly, the O's can "beef" up the analytics but the talent has to be there. Putting Jones in CF with that lack of range the last several years was a joke. That is the sort of thing that did Buck in. 

[TouchemAll]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sad thing is they did add an analytics person.  Evidently they are not getting the job done.

Or was it ignored?

[Going Underground]

5 minutes ago, pastorfan said:

Zach did quite well a few years ago. Certainly, the O's can "beef" up the analytics but the talent has to be there. Putting Jones in CF with that lack of range the last several years was a joke. That is the sort of thing that did Buck in. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, TouchemAll said:

Or was it ignored?

If you can't defend your results you still aren't doing your job.

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I assume this is standard for the Orioles: they've improved quite a bit over the past decade, but the other teams have improved more quickly.  The 2003 Orioles were a state of the art franchise for 1985.  Maybe now they're only a few years behind.

Exactly.   It's not some binary "this team uses analytics" / "this team doesn't".

You can use analytics as a team for player evaluation for potential acquisitions and other player decisions.

You can use analytics to determine where to position fielders and other in game tactical decisions.

And you can do what the Yankees do and provide each player with information that is tailored to specifically help them, as Britton describes.

[Moose Milligan]

7 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Exactly.   It's not some binary "this team uses analytics" / "this team doesn't".

You can use analytics as a team for player evaluation for potential acquisitions and other player decisions.

You can use analytics to determine where to position fielders and other in game tactical decisions.

And you can do what the Yankees do and provide each player with information that is tailored to specifically help them, as Britton describes.

I think the appropriate statement on the Orioles is that they don't use them correctly.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

You guys are missing a name here, Sarah Gelles. Gelles has been in charge of analytics under Duquette since December 2011 when she was promoted from a baseball operations intern.

I don't know her at all, but everything I've ever heard about her by other people in the organization has been negative . Whoever they hire to be the VP of Baseball Operations needs to clean house and bring in actual successful Analytics people. It's embarrassing to hear how much better other organizations are with data and analytics.

Actually Gelles is one of Duquette's failures as GM.

This is interesting information.    All I know about Gelles is she went to Amherst, like Duquette.   I’d be interested to know what kind of specific negative things you’ve heard about her.    I could see the old school guys saying negative things just because they don’t like the newfangled analytics.  Or, I could see people who know what they’re talking about saying she’s not as good as her peers in the industry.    In any event I think we are under-resourced in this area.  

[TonySoprano]

Quote

More is not always better, but it’s clear the Yankees have dropped some serious coin on their analytics squad. We asked around, and it seems that nobody beats them when it comes to the size of their research and development departments.

Team	Analysts	Team	Analysts
American League		National League
Yankees	20	Dodgers	20
Astros	15	Braves	15
Rays	15	Brewers	11
Angels	10	Reds	11
Tigers	9	Phillies	10
Rangers	8	Nationals	8
Mariners	7	Pirates	8
Royals	7	Padres	7
Twins	7	Cardinals	6
Blue Jays	6	Cubs	6
Red Sox	6	Giants	6
Indians	5	Marlins	6
Orioles	5	Dbacks	5
Athletics	3	Rockies	4
White Sox	2	Mets	3

https://theathletic.com/560514/2018/10/03/how-brian-cashman-deftly-played-the-long-game-and-used-analytics-to-transform-the-culture-of-the-yankees/
 

 

[Chromehill]

Interesting that the A's one of the pioneers using analytics only has 3 on staff.  Analytics, scouting and minor league development staff are three areas that are often underfunded and are 3 key areas every team especially small to medium market teams need to exploit.  How much does an analyst cost?  A scout, minor league coach?  You can probably hire an excellent coach or scout for $100K, a very good analytics department might cost $7 or $8 mil.  The O's cut corners here to basically save the salaries of Chris Tilman and Rasmus who you did not need any analytics or scouts to tell you were bad signings.  

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Chromehill said:

Interesting that the A's one of the pioneers using analytics only has 3 on staff.  Analytics, scouting and minor league development staff are three areas that are often underfunded and are 3 key areas every team especially small to medium market teams need to exploit.  How much does an analyst cost?  A scout, minor league coach?  You can probably hire an excellent coach or scout for $100K, a very good analytics department might cost $7 or $8 mil.  The O's cut corners here to basically save the salaries of Chris Tilman and Rasmus who you did not need any analytics or scouts to tell you were bad signings.  

Billy has the players doing spread sheets off the clock.

[Larry18]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

Exactly.   It's not some binary "this team uses analytics" / "this team doesn't".

You can use analytics as a team for player evaluation for potential acquisitions and other player decisions.

You can use analytics to determine where to position fielders and other in game tactical decisions.

And you can do what the Yankees do and provide each player with information that is tailored to specifically help them, as Britton describes.

Zach basically throws one pitch. How much analysis is there for this type of reliever? Everybody wants better information but I've heard Max Scherzer praise Matt Wieters for providing this very same service.

[Ohfan67]

6 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

Also, I don't think people realize how much of a drop in the bucket a true analytics department would cost. But it comes from the top. And by the top...I don't mean the owner. I mean the GM. 

Look at what Huntington did. He got Clint f'ing Hurdle to buy into it. He had a rag tag group of people that was integrated every day on the field, with the players, strategizing with Hurdle, etc.

About one Colby Rasmus per year. Or one 2018 Tillman. The Orioles have flushed that kind of money down the toilet multiple times per year most years of the Angelos reign. 

[TGO]

On 8/17/2018 at 6:41 PM, bobmc said:

Good interviews with Diaz, Tate, Hays plus Kline, Akin, McKenna and Bannon.  At 34 minutes she gets to Bannon and I thought it interesting that when she asked him to compare the Dodger and Oriole organizations.  He said the Dodgers were more innovative and the Orioles were "old-school".  He dances around that and says he likes both concepts and even seemed to prefer the "Oriole Way".  But he said that the Dodgers use analytics more.  See what you think.  Sara does a good job of getting honest answers.  A good group of young men - I picked up a few insights.

 

This made me recall this thread from bobmc on the minors board a couple months ago. Rylan Bannon talked about how the Orioles organization was more "old school" and less analytically inclined than the Dodgers. I think he figured out midway through talking about it that he probably shouldn't be talking about it at length and sort of demurred.