O's need to a plan for SS this season

[OriolesMagic83]

14 hours ago, Matt Bennett said:

Beckham. Lifetime BABIP of .325 and in 2018 it was .282. He also hit decently when playing shortstop and hit miserably when playing everywhere else. This follows a career trend.

Absolutely no reason Villar should be on this team on Opening Day. Trade him for prospects.

The O's are pretty much devoid of middle infield prospects in the upper minors.  Villar is one of the few players that are exciting for myself (and no doubt many other fans) to watch.  The Orioles are a business and not just entertainment.  They will want to keep a couple of fan favorites to prop up attendance, because they know attendance is already going to crater.   I want the O's to at least have good defense this year.  I want the O's young pitchers to have confidence that their defense will back them up.  The offense is a lost cause.  I doubt Villar brings back much, maybe a player who would be #15 prospect for the O's?  Might as well hold onto him until the trade deadline.  I would much rather keep Villar than Beckham. 

[El Gordo]

7 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

His career high in games played is 137 in four seasons in the majors. He had to imitate Babe Ruth for a month to get into that many games. He would probably hit the 20 home runs, but his career OPS is .728 and it was .661 last year. Beckham is fools gold. Hold him in the right light and he looks like the real deal, but unfortunately he is just not a good enough hitter to overcome his below average and very frustrating defense. Tampa and Baltimore wanted him to succeed, badly, but unfortunately he seems to earn distrust from managers, not trust. His defense seems to frustrate them as much as it does fans. If his defense was adequate, then I would let him play shortstop. But I think his defense will ultimately frustrate the new manager and reduce his playing time. 

Last year ave. MLB OPS for SS.733, Not far off from Beckham's career .728. Last year he played out of position and recovered from abdominal surgery, but the second half still managed 

.250

.313

.441

.754

[thezeroes]

Villar is a year younger than Beckham

Villar had an overall 1.3 WAR compared to Beckham's 0.7

Villar is projected to get $4.4 Million this year Beckham is to get $4.3 Million

Villar is a switch hitter, Beckham is not

Villar seems to be equally good at different positions and maintaining his hitting, Beckham does not

Villar statistically in 2018 is a superior player to Beckham

If the New Management Team keeps Beckham over Villar it would scream out that we are no further along in being SABR Friendly than the Orioles were under Duquette/Showalter

 

 

[Matt Bennett]

8 hours ago, thezeroes said:

Villar is a year younger than Beckham

Villar had an overall 1.3 WAR compared to Beckham's 0.7 

Villar is projected to get $4.4 Million this year Beckham is to get $4.3 Million

Villar is a switch hitter, Beckham is not

Villar seems to be equally good at different positions and maintaining his hitting, Beckham does not

Villar statistically in 2018 is a superior player to Beckham

If the New Management Team keeps Beckham over Villar it would scream out that we are no further along in being SABR Friendly than the Orioles were under Duquette/Showalter

 

 

It's not a matter of keeping Beckham over Villar because Beckham is the better player. Quite the opposite. Villar is the superior player and his value is high right now. Therefore the Orioles, with no chance to compete in 2019 and most likely 2020 as well, should trade him. Beckham is not trade-able right now because of his down year. Holding up to him and letting him produce better results (of which I'm certain he would) and then trading him is the way to go.

 

10 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

The O's are pretty much devoid of middle infield prospects in the upper minors.  Villar is one of the few players that are exciting for myself (and no doubt many other fans) to watch.  The Orioles are a business and not just entertainment.  They will want to keep a couple of fan favorites to prop up attendance, because they know attendance is already going to crater.   I want the O's to at least have good defense this year.  I want the O's young pitchers to have confidence that their defense will back them up.  The offense is a lost cause.  I doubt Villar brings back much, maybe a player who would be #15 prospect for the O's?  Might as well hold onto him until the trade deadline.  I would much rather keep Villar than Beckham. 

Orioles fans will not come to see Jonathan Villar. This team will get dead last with or without Jonathan Villar. The fans want to see a winner. If they would come to see a 50 win team, they will come to see a 48 win team too.

[POR]

On 10/13/2018 at 6:48 PM, wildcard said:

Iglesias made 6.2m last year.  He is 28 and considered a plus defensive SS.   He will make at least what he is did last year and maybe for a multi year contract.

Mercer made 6.7m last year.  He is 32.  He may be available for less depending on the market.   

Villar is projected to make 4.4m and he is an Oriole.   The O's have a couple of other candidates to play 2B,

It is tough to predict what the market for players like Iglesias and Mercer will be.  You may be right.  To me they seem like the type of lower middle class position players whose market has really dried up in recent years.  I could see them not having any offers come February and signing an inexpensive one year deal.

[POR]

14 hours ago, thezeroes said:

Villar is a year younger than Beckham

Villar had an overall 1.3 WAR compared to Beckham's 0.7

Villar is projected to get $4.4 Million this year Beckham is to get $4.3 Million

Villar is a switch hitter, Beckham is not

Villar seems to be equally good at different positions and maintaining his hitting, Beckham does not

Villar statistically in 2018 is a superior player to Beckham

If the New Management Team keeps Beckham over Villar it would scream out that we are no further along in being SABR Friendly than the Orioles were under Duquette/Showalter

 

 

I don't think you have a very good idea how smart teams make decisions.  It come down to each player's value not their 2018 WAR, but their future value.  If you think you can get more for Villar than he is worth, than you trade him this off season.  If you think Villar is undervalued you keep him, hope he has a good 100 games and look at trading him at the trade deadline in July.  If you think Beckham is going to get more in arbitration than he is worth, then you non-tender him.    

[TommyPickles]

15 hours ago, thezeroes said:

Villar is a year younger than Beckham

Villar had an overall 1.3 WAR compared to Beckham's 0.7

Villar is projected to get $4.4 Million this year Beckham is to get $4.3 Million

Villar is a switch hitter, Beckham is not

Villar seems to be equally good at different positions and maintaining his hitting, Beckham does not

Villar statistically in 2018 is a superior player to Beckham

If the New Management Team keeps Beckham over Villar it would scream out that we are no further along in being SABR Friendly than the Orioles were under Duquette/Showalter

 

 

Villar actually had a 2.7 WAR in 2018. The 1.3 was just from his time with the Os. A very nice 2018 season for the 27-year old.

[weams]

35 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

Villar actually had a 2.7 WAR in 2018. The 1.3 was just from his time with the Os. A very nice 2018 season for the 27-year old.

Good value. 

[wildbillhiccup]

On 10/13/2018 at 9:31 AM, weams said:

I agree. I think the Orioles will do fine there. And if not, bring back J.J. Hardy as a player manager for 750,000 a year. 

No, just no. 

[wildbillhiccup]

I'd be fine with the team giving a one year deal to Escobar to help bridge the gap. No chance I sign anyone to more than a 1 year deal. 

Manny Machado	SS	26	LAD	188	107	37	.297	.905					$16,000,000	$26,832,507
Freddy Galvis	SS	29	SD	149	67	13	.248	.679					$6,825,000	$11,749,615
Jordy Mercer	SS	32	PIT	99	39	6	.251	.696					$6,750,000	$6,646,606
Jose Iglesias	SS	29	DET	116	48	5	.269	.699					$6,275,000	$8,141,964
Adeiny Hechavarria	SS	30	NYY	73	31	6	.247	.624					$5,900,000	-
Alcides Escobar	SS	32	KC	112	34	4	.231	.592					$3,775,000	-
Jose Reyes	SS	36	NYM	43	16	4	.189	.580	1				$2,000,000	-
Andrew Romine	SS	33	SEA	25	2		.210	.504	3				$1,050,000	-
Cliff Pennington	SS	35	TEX	4			.138	.403	1				-	-
Andres Blanco	SS	35	MIL

[wildbillhiccup]

On 10/13/2018 at 9:37 AM, ScGO's said:

I would love that move.  I wonder what his management style would be like?  If he embraced analytics, I'm on board with this.  

He'd be 36, but he was still putting up positive Defensive metrics in 2017 and with a year of rest, he'd probably be pretty sharp.  He'd need to be in a time share though, or the back up with a ++glove so he can spend most of his time managing and staying fresh for the 50-60 games he does play.

Right because players in their late 30s tend to get better (defensively) with age. A player/coach is an outdated strategy. There's a reason why no other MLB teams employ this type of strategy. It doesn't work. 

[interloper]

I'm fine with Villar honestly. Let's not overthink it. 

[clapdiddy]

I think I'd give Villar a shot at SS, hoping that this makes him more valuable in a deal.    He's still under team control through 2020, so if he has a hot beginning of 2019, he could be a nice trade chip.

[thezeroes]

6 hours ago, POR said:

I don't think you have a very good idea how smart teams make decisions.

This is the Orioles.  WE have no President, GM., Manager or Coaches that are under contract.  If the decision is made at shortstop prior to these people being in place then Villar not Beckham gives the team a better value.  This better value would translate into a better trade during the summer of 2019.  Beckham would seem to be in the boat with Chris Davis as asunk cost with little or no value going forward.  Having said that WHY would you keep him over Villar?????

[Redskins Rick]