Jump to content

How do the Orioles become competitive again?

awannabegeek

By awannabegeek
in Orioles Talk

Recommended Posts

awannabegeek Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

awannabegeek

Posted
Posted

 

Look at my post history, I'm not a negative guy.  I give the benefit of the doubt. I don't think Angelos is cheap, I do think he's a bad owner but I don't hate him as some do. i can acknowledge the Orioles pitching development is not the best but can recognize Wade Miley's luck driven ERA is not worth getting upset about.  I generally just don't post negative stuff, sports are a fun escape, if it's not fun I don't watch. I definitely don't get upset...with all that said.  

I have no hope for this team.  They had a key opportunity to jump-start a rebuild of their farm system and they've totally botched it. 

No Mesa(s), No Gaston which in turn makes the Gausman trade look horrible. You could squint, look at the international slot money and convince yourself if they signed the Mesa(s), Gaston, and maybe Bonilla it would be worth it. They didn't\haven't but the cherry on top is sending 750k to the Phillies for Zoellner.  Why? Gausman's context neutral\peripherals, age, and control should have fetched someone(s) of significance from a stacked farm system. 

The Machado trade was fine considering he was a pending free agent. Though how they let it get to that point is beyond me.

The Schoop trade looks fine but I don't think Ortiz is a future SP

Britton trade is okay.

How do the Orioles compete moving forward? The Blue Jays farm system is stacked.  The Rays have a limited payroll but have an extremely cheap and talented roster.  The Yankees and Red Sox not only can outspend everyone but they have over the last 5-7 years placed a greater emphasis on analytics and player development. 

The Orioles...have a middling farm system even after the fire sale.  While I do think it may be better than it is given credit for. It's not even close to the Blue Jays, Rays, or Yankees. 

Player development is questionable at best. 

Their analytics department seems antiquated from the outside looking in. 

Regardless of who the owner is, I'm a bit concerned about payroll moving forward. Quite frankly attendance was pretty garbage when they were contending, now it just looks sad. 

Closing in on the end of the WS and no GM or manager -- aside from that why did they even let Duquette trade anyone that wasn't a pending free agent if their intentions were to fire him. 

I've watched them botch the handling of a generational\HOF talent, put a historically bad team on the field, they are not smarter, better at developing talent, nor can they outspend their competition....

I have no hope for this team...I think this team will be bad for a very long time...I do hope I'm wrong.

Oh...and Chris Davis...enough said.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 41
  • Created
  • Last Reply
JR Oriole Major Leaguer

JR Oriole

Posted
Posted

And given that the Red Sox are on the cusp of winning the World Series yet again, this really does feel like an extremely dark era for Os fans and Os baseball in general.  Strong kudos to all of us who continue to read this board and post on it....we all deserve much better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest FFmikey

Guest FFmikey

Posted
Posted

The on the field product will not be competitive for another 3-4 years.  Please, and I stress this, please be patient and do not focus on the on field results for a few years.  The Orioles have an incredible opportunity right now to right all the wrongs in this organization. In years past we were just good enough for the organization to think we could just patch the roster with some free agents and bubble gum to be competitive again.  Luckily we pumped out a horrific season that makes a full tear down obvious.  Houston being forced to switch leagues gave them their opportunity and this is ours.  Before we start talking about player signings we need to start at the top.  Peter Angelos is not dead and is still the owner of the Orioles.  His sons have taken a bigger role but that role and authority needs to be defined before we hire a president.  A fractured ownership will lead to infighting and a continued collapse of the franchise during the upcoming years of on field futility.  If and I stress if ownership is able to figure out who has the last say, we can hire a president and there are many solid candidates out there. Any president would need to focus on analytics, player development, player evaluation.  This is a modern direction but one that may hurt a lot of feelings within this organization. BALTIMORE has a long history of being very loyal to front office employees to a complete fault. An advancement of each of these departments would probably lead to feathers being ruffled or people being fired.  As an organization we need to decide whether we want to be loyal to ineffective employees and practices or be competitive on the field, I don’t think both are possible.  Unfortunately I don’t believe the ownership situation will be cut and dry and I think the in house loyalty is too strong to get away from.  This lack of certainty and full autonomy will discourage most presidential candidates from applying.  I think things will change but not nearly as much as it should and we will squander this great opportunity to fix the franchise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

Posted
Posted

I will always have hope, and hopefully the new management, once hired, will be given some latitude and do a good job.

That said, they will be starting from a deep, deep hole.    Probably the deepest hole that any incoming Orioles management team ever has faced, except when the Browns first moved here from St. Louis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JR Oriole Major Leaguer

JR Oriole

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I will always have hope, and hopefully the new management, once hired, will be given some latitude and do a good job.

That said, they will be starting from a deep, deep hole.    Probably the deepest hole that any incoming Orioles management team ever has faced, except when the Browns first moved here from St. Louis.

Very true.  And a totally different era back in 1954.  The excitement of having a new team, combined with the extremely low expectations that are afforded a new team and an environment with no sports television, internet, or other avenues that allow you to truly see just how flawed you are versus everyone else makes this a much worse situation.  Hell, 1954 wasn't that far removed from an entire nation not even knowing that the President was in a wheelchair.  The people in charge in the warehouse now would love for it to be 1954 again.  In 2018, their absolute incompetence is on full HD display for everyone to see. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

Posted
Posted

In all honesty I have no idea how to respond to the question in the title of this thread. Short of completely cleaning house (I'm looking at you Brady) and bringing in a savvy baseball mind to run the show I see no hope for the future of this franchise under the current regime. We are at rock bottom and it's hard to see any sort of light at the end of the tunnel. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
utvolzac Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

utvolzac

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

It begins with new ownership.

There is no path to competitiveness with the Angelos family in charge.

I do believe(pray) that they are working towards selling the team

This. I have zero faith in this franchise under anyone named Angelos.

Each year it becomes harder and harder to follow this team. Last season was unwatchable. I didn’t believe for a second that Duq’s statement about investing in the international market, analytics, etc was anything more than blowing smoke.

At this point I’m just holding onto hope that they will sell once Peter passes. Not sure if there is an inheritance tax (wishful thinking) on the O’s or not. If so, maybe that would push the Angelos family towards selling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, awannabegeek said:

 

Look at my post history, I'm not a negative guy.  I give the benefit of the doubt. I don't think Angelos is cheap, I do think he's a bad owner but I don't hate him as some do. i can acknowledge the Orioles pitching development is not the best but can recognize Wade Miley's luck driven ERA is not worth getting upset about.  I generally just don't post negative stuff, sports are a fun escape, if it's not fun I don't watch. I definitely don't get upset...with all that said.  

I have no hope for this team.  They had a key opportunity to jump-start a rebuild of their farm system and they've totally botched it. 

No Mesa(s), No Gaston which in turn makes the Gausman trade look horrible. You could squint, look at the international slot money and convince yourself if they signed the Mesa(s), Gaston, and maybe Bonilla it would be worth it. They didn't\haven't but the cherry on top is sending 750k to the Phillies for Zoellner.  Why? Gausman's context neutral\peripherals, age, and control should have fetched someone(s) of significance from a stacked farm system. 

The Machado trade was fine considering he was a pending free agent. Though how they let it get to that point is beyond me.

The Schoop trade looks fine but I don't think Ortiz is a future SP

Britton trade is okay.

How do the Orioles compete moving forward? The Blue Jays farm system is stacked.  The Rays have a limited payroll but have an extremely cheap and talented roster.  The Yankees and Red Sox not only can outspend everyone but they have over the last 5-7 years placed a greater emphasis on analytics and player development. 

The Orioles...have a middling farm system even after the fire sale.  While I do think it may be better than it is given credit for. It's not even close to the Blue Jays, Rays, or Yankees. 

Player development is questionable at best. 

Their analytics department seems antiquated from the outside looking in. 

Regardless of who the owner is, I'm a bit concerned about payroll moving forward. Quite frankly attendance was pretty garbage when they were contending, now it just looks sad. 

Closing in on the end of the WS and no GM or manager -- aside from that why did they even let Duquette trade anyone that wasn't a pending free agent if their intentions were to fire him. 

I've watched them botch the handling of a generational\HOF talent, put a historically bad team on the field, they are not smarter, better at developing talent, nor can they outspend their competition....

I have no hope for this team...I think this team will be bad for a very long time...I do hope I'm wrong.

Oh...and Chris Davis...enough said.

 

If they can get the right people in charge that will help. But yes it will be awhile I'm afraid. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

It begins with new ownership.

There is no path to competitiveness with the Angelos family in charge.

I do believe(pray) that they are working towards selling the team

And when the Angelos sons are still the owners what will you do then?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, JR Oriole said:

Very true.  And a totally different era back in 1954.  The excitement of having a new team, combined with the extremely low expectations that are afforded a new team and an environment with no sports television, internet, or other avenues that allow you to truly see just how flawed you are versus everyone else makes this a much worse situation.  Hell, 1954 wasn't that far removed from an entire nation not even knowing that the President was in a wheelchair.  The people in charge in the warehouse now would love for it to be 1954 again.  In 2018, their absolute incompetence is on full HD display for everyone to see. 

btxmpzwl79u11.png?width=640&crop=smart&a

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


  • Posts

    • wildcard
      RHH Outfield Targets

      By wildcard · Posted

      Let  Westy  play 3B vs right handed pitching and LF vs left-handed pitching.    Urias can play 3B vs lefties.   This is only needed if Cowser can't hit lefties. Mateo and Westy can be platoon in the outfield IMO.
    • Aristotelian
      RHH Outfield Targets

      By Aristotelian · Posted

      O'Neil seems like a perfect fit if he doesn't cost too much in years or dollars.   
    • sportsfan8703
      Still think this team didn't choke under pressure?

      By sportsfan8703 · Posted

      I don’t think we choked. Stubborn as hell. We literally went down with the same sinking ship philosophy that we had the entire 2nd half of the season.  The young guys just have to adjust. I mean getting completely shut down for 5 post season games has to wear on them. If it doesn’t, then we were never built to win. 
    • sportsfan8703
      RHH Outfield Targets

      By sportsfan8703 · Posted

      Right now the 2025 OF has three LHH OF in Cowser, Mullins, and Kjerstad. I’m not sure what the bench makeup of this team will be, but it looks like we’ll need 1-2 RHH options.  We could bring Slater back on a small “Tony Kemp” like 1 year deal or a milb deal.  With Santander leaving, and Mateo back to being in the CF mix once healthy, do we go with a more COF RHH type? Trades are a possibility as well, but here is a list of upcoming RHH OF Free Agents,    
    • Jagwar
      Offseason Trade Pondering

      By Jagwar · Posted

      I actually didn't suggest a reliever as the return, that was SG. I was thinking more about trading veterans to acquire pitching prospects, probably lower level lottery tickets. I'd rather pick up ML roster pieces through free agency (assuming of course that Rubenstein will allow a significant payroll boost.).
    • Jammer7
      Co-hitting coach Ryan Fuller, Fredi Gonzalez and Jose Hernandez let go

      By Jammer7 · Posted

      Each player is different. Each player may have a somewhat different hitting philosophy, based on their strengths and weaknesses. Not everyone is a “power hitter.” I would not coach a Tony Santander the same as a Jordan Westburg, or a Jorge Mateo, or a Cedric Mullins. Some should be more selective, while others may need to do more damage and it’s ok for them to K more because the power payoff is worth it. Some should have a more oppo approach, while others may need to try to pull the ball more. The Waltimore certainly has messed with many of our RH bats.  Being a hitting coach is a lot of work, and it is usually not often a position held for many years. They seem to often be a scapegoat when the players do not hit. I wonder what drove the players to swing more at pitches they probably should not have. I seriously doubt it was Ryan Fuller. Hitting coaches have a general philosophical approach, like Fuller would have hitters learn to take pitches they cannot hit well, with less than 2 strikes.. He wanted them to swing only at pitches they can do damage with. They do not dramatically change. For the Orioles to become much more free swinging, that must have driven Fuller to leave. So be it. Going forward, they probably need to be somewhere in between the previous two years. In the playoffs, they get pitched to differently. It’s higher intensity. You have to be proficient in putting the ball in play. You have to be able to take what the game gives you, and execute. There is no excuse for repeatedly having runners in scoring position with less than two outs and repeatedly not being able to get them home. Bases loaded, no outs, hitters 2,3 and 4 coming up…we have to score there. The approach was to hit a grand slam. Awful baseball. A ton of talent on this roster, and something has to change. 
    • wildcard
      Do we agree that developing Kjerstad RF, Holliday 2B and Mayo 1B/DH.......

      By wildcard · Posted

      I have been pretty happy with Kjerstad's defense in the outfield corners.   Not that I want him in left at home.     I agree with what Elias said about Mayo's body type being more suited for 1B.

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...