Machado Trade Revisited. What If...

[Redskins Rick]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Or he was told Brady was untouchable.

Either or.

Do you really believe that?

Didn't Elias say they would take a look at his roles and responsibilities?

Elias is supposed to be one of the sharper minds available.

Do you think he would have walked into a situation where his hands are tied, where he could have gone elsewhere?

[Going Underground]

3 hours ago, weams said:

They gone. Complaining about Peter is off limits. It's done. Brave New World. 

Aldous Huxley is the Orioles #1 draft pick ? Hopefully the promotion and marketing department gets A Brave New World or at least a quicker one.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

Do you really believe that?

Didn't Elias say they would take a look at his roles and responsibilities?

Elias is supposed to be one of the sharper minds available.

Do you think he would have walked into a situation where his hands are tied, where he could have gone elsewhere?

I think it is possible that instead of total control he is working under a couple conditions.  Mainly don't cut Davis and don't fire Brady.

I think that if they exist he knew about them before he agreed to sign.

It is one of 30 jobs. 

Sorry I'm not suddenly going to start believing the Angelos family without seeing some evidence beyond just words.  If they had actually spent the International slot money they traded for it would have been a point in their favor in my book, but they didn't.

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I think it is possible that instead of total control he is working under a couple conditions.  Mainly don't cut Davis and don't fire Brady.

I think that if they exist he knew about them before he agreed to sign.

It is one of 30 jobs. 

Sorry I'm not suddenly going to start believing the Angelos family without seeing some evidence beyond just words.  If they had actually spent the International slot money they traded for it would have been a point in their favor in my book, but they didn't.

I dont think there is a single team in baseball that would cut Davis, not with that amount of money.

If you dont believe the boys are in charge now, and daddy isn't. I dont know what else I can say.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Redskins Rick said:

I dont think there is a single team in baseball that would cut Davis, not with that amount of money.

If you dont believe the boys are in charge now, and daddy isn't. I dont know what else I can say.

Where did I say that?

[Frobby]

56 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I know, lets beat up Brady even more.

Elias is far from stupid. He must think Brady is worth keeping around, for whatever reason.

I suspect Brady will have a different role here under Elias, but we shall see.

 

39 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Or he was told Brady was untouchable.

Either or.

Or, deciding what to do with Brady isn’t at the top of his agenda.    Getting a manager, farm director and scouting director and an international guy are.     There will be time to deal with the Brady issue.   

[wildbillhiccup]

41 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think it is possible that instead of total control he is working under a couple conditions.  Mainly don't cut Davis and don't fire Brady.

I think that if they exist he knew about them before he agreed to sign.

It is one of 30 jobs. 

Sorry I'm not suddenly going to start believing the Angelos family without seeing some evidence beyond just words.  If they had actually spent the International slot money they traded for it would have been a point in their favor in my book, but they didn't.

Agree with this. I'm encouraged by the Elias signing, but I'm going to have to see some tangible things happen before I believe they've righted the ship. 

[wildbillhiccup]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

Or, deciding what to do with Brady isn’t at the top of his agenda.    Getting a manager, farm director and scouting director and an international guy are.     There will be time to deal with the Brady issue.   

I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm thinking (and hoping) he'll deal with it in due time. 

[Tony-OH]

18 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I think a little better is a understatement. Weaver still has TOR upside and Kelly is one of the best catching prospects in the game. I'd never ever heard of Kremer before the Orioles traded for him. There's no way Diaz / Kremer even comes close to Weaver / Kelly. And it really shouldn't since the Cardinals are paying for more service time. But that's my point. The Cards were interested in Machado during the off season. If this is what they were willing to give up for Goldy then the Orioles could have probably pried Flaherty and Kelly away from them. But they insisted on "two MLB ready SPs" a demand that they knew no team could meet. 

The Cardinals are getting Goldschmidt for a whole year vs two months and post season of Machado. Why shouldn't they get a better return? Last I checked Goldschmidt is a six time All-star, four time silver slugger, and 3 times gold glover who has been worth 40.1 over seven seasons. 

The Orioles got two potential (55) players in Diaz and Kremer for two months of Machado. Not to mention Pop and Bannon who could end up providing value as well. Now I just looked at the return for Goldschmidt and although Kelly and Weaver would be good adds, i'm trying for the life of me to see why you think these guys are so much better than Diaz/Kremer?

Kelly has struggled in three short trials with the Cardinals and although I like the plate discipline, his career .255/.324/.380/.704 in the minors doesn't scream star in the majors.

Weaver is a guy with a league average fastball, an average changeup, and a curveball that doesn['t get a lot of swings and misses. He'll mix a cutter in once in awhile but it's not a difference maker. He seems to have some pitchability by staying on the edges of the strike zone (42.2% vs League average is 39%).

Looking at all the stats and peripherals, he looks like a 4th starter for me more than a potential TOR. 

Kremer to me is probably a 3rd-4th starter though he could keep developing like he did last season and end up better. Diaz looks like a good bet to be solid major league corner outfielder. I'll take Pop or Bannon over Andy Young (the 37th round pick who was 24-years old in A-ball last year).

I think the returns are fairly equal but even if you like the Diamondbacks return better, it's not significantly better and they got a full year of an All-star difference maker for their lineup vs a two-month rental.

[Tony-OH]

55 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think it is possible that instead of total control he is working under a couple conditions.  Mainly don't cut Davis and don't fire Brady.

I think that if they exist he knew about them before he agreed to sign.

It is one of 30 jobs. 

Sorry I'm not suddenly going to start believing the Angelos family without seeing some evidence beyond just words.  If they had actually spent the International slot money they traded for it would have been a point in their favor in my book, but they didn't.

Ok, as a guy who uses "Actions Speak Louder than words" for a life motto, I understand where you are coming from. Saying that, no one was really running ship during the Cuban fiasco so who even knows if the Orioles had a chance to spend the money and the Angelos brothers denied the request. I have a hard time believing they gave Brian Graham full carte blanche to do what he wanted of spend what he wanted on the Cuban pitcher.

I'm going to take them at their word because I doubt a guy like Elias would have taken this job if he didn't have assurances that he was able to make the final calls on baseball operations matters. Now the old adage "trust but verify" can certainly come in play here and over time we will have a better idea, but the fact that Peter Angelos is no longer part of the decision making process leads me to believe this more than if he still were part of the decision tree.

[Tony-OH]

Speaking of Goldschmidt, he was drafted in the 8th round in 2009. not that the Orioles were the only team to miss on Goldsmidt, but here are the guys the Orioles choose before Goldscmidt was drafted by Arizona.

1. Matt Hobgood (minors)RHP

2. Mychal Givens (majors)SS

3. Tyler Townsend (minors)1B

4. Randy Henry (minors)RHP

5. Ashur Tolliver (majors - cup of coffee) LHP

6. Justin Dalles (minors)C

7. Aaron Wirsch (minors)LHP

8. Devin Harris (minors)LF

If this isn't proof that the draft can be a crapshoot then nothing will convince you!

[interloper]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think it is possible that instead of total control he is working under a couple conditions.  Mainly don't cut Davis and don't fire Brady.

I think that if they exist he knew about them before he agreed to sign.

It is one of 30 jobs. 

Sorry I'm not suddenly going to start believing the Angelos family without seeing some evidence beyond just words.  If they had actually spent the International slot money they traded for it would have been a point in their favor in my book, but they didn't.

They tried, but it's hard to compete with Miami. They also can still spend it. 

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, interloper said:

They tried, but it's hard to compete with Miami. They also can still spend it. 

But they didn't try, at least according to Roch their offer wasn't competitive with the $ Miami offered.  That combined with the Zoellner trade leads me to believe they were not interested in spending real money on the international market this year.

[Frobby]

30 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Speaking of Goldschmidt, he was drafted in the 8th round in 2009. not that the Orioles were the only team to miss on Goldsmidt, but here are the guys the Orioles choose before Goldscmidt was drafted by Arizona.

1. Matt Hobgood (minors)RHP

2. Mychal Givens (majors)SS

3. Tyler Townsend (minors)1B

4. Randy Henry (minors)RHP

5. Ashur Tolliver (majors - cup of coffee) LHP

6. Justin Dalles (minors)C

7. Aaron Wirsch (minors)LHP

8. Devin Harris (minors)LF

If this isn't proof that the draft can be a crapshoot then nothing will convince you!

Also, he was never ranked as a top 100 prospect as a minor leaguer.   Just goes to show you, in baseball  ya never know.   

[Aglets]

But where did the Astros have him ranked?