Harold Baines.....Lee Smith in Hall of Fame

[DrungoHazewood]

Just now, interloper said:

Question: if he goes in as an Oriole, is his number going up in Camden Yards?

Isn't a big part of the reason he's going in is that he's the best White Sox position player ever besides Luke Appling, Frank Thomas, Eddie Collins, Nellie Fox, Minnie Minoso, Robin Ventura, Luis Aparicio, George Davis, Fielder Jones, Paul Konerko, Carlton Fisk, Ray Schalk, Willie Kamm, Shem Lollar, Magglio Ordonez, and Chet Lemon?

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Question: if he goes in as an Oriole, is his number going up in Camden Yards?

Baines?  Dude goes in as a White Sox inductee, no doubt.  La Russa managed him for years in Chicago, Jerry Reinsdorf is on the vets committee and played a big part in this.  If he doesn't go in as anything other than a White Sox, people are going to go nuts.  

[Number5]

15 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Isn't a big part of the reason he's going in is that he's the best White Sox position player ever besides Luke Appling, Frank Thomas, Eddie Collins, Nellie Fox, Minnie Minoso, Robin Ventura, Luis Aparicio, George Davis, Fielder Jones, Paul Konerko, Carlton Fisk, Ray Schalk, Willie Kamm, Shem Lollar, Magglio Ordonez, and Chet Lemon?

Joe Jackson?

[TonySoprano]

 

[DrungoHazewood]

6 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Joe Jackson?

He was a Black Sox.

[weams]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

Question: if he goes in as an Oriole, is his number going up in Camden Yards?

 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

He was a Black Sox.

And should be in the HoF with Pete Rose.  Fight me.

[atomic]

1 hour ago, weams said:

 

Statue?

[Hallas]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I guess that since there are no specific criteria for induction you could have the opinion that individual positions be graded on their own curves.  They're already doing that with relievers, who are mostly pitchers who weren't up to starting and pitched 1/3rd or 1/4th or less of the innings of a starter.  

But the result of that kind of thinking is that you'll induct DHs with no fielding contribution ahead of better hitters from other positions who did also contribute on defense.  That's what we're seeing with Baines.  Bobby Grich had a 125 OPS+ and was a legitimate Gold Glove second baseman.  Baines had a 121 OPS+ and played two innings in the field over his last nine years in the league.

[(B+ hitter) + (B+ glove at second)] < [(B hitter) + (basically no defensive value)]

So I guess Baines is the DH version of Trevor Hoffman?  The other relievers (and Rivera if/when he gets in) have been good decisions IMO.

[25 Nuggets]

5 minutes ago, Hallas said:

So I guess Baines is the DH version of Trevor Hoffman?  The other relievers (and Rivera if/when he gets in) have been good decisions IMO.

I'd say he's more like the DH version of Jeff Reardon -- but the correlation hasn't been clearly defined between the two roles.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

And should be in the HoF with Pete Rose.  Fight me.

Maybe the Las Vegas Gaming Association Hall of Fame.  Or the athletes wing of the Organized Crime Hall of Fame.

The first lifetime bans for gambling were associated with the 1877 Louisville scandal.  It's not like they didn't know the consequences, this was nothing new.  Everyone knew.

[25 Nuggets]

1 hour ago, weams said:

 

That was fun. 

[DrungoHazewood]

20 minutes ago, Hallas said:

So I guess Baines is the DH version of Trevor Hoffman?  The other relievers (and Rivera if/when he gets in) have been good decisions IMO.

Something like that, except Hoffman had multiple top-5 Cy Young finishes and higher MVP finishes than Baines.  

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Maybe the Las Vegas Gaming Association Hall of Fame.  Or the athletes wing of the Organized Crime Hall of Fame.

The first lifetime bans for gambling were associated with the 1877 Louisville scandal.  It's not like they didn't know the consequences, this was nothing new.  Everyone knew.

"This is the way we've always done it," isn't the best argument.

[DrungoHazewood]

18 minutes ago, 25 Nuggets said:

I'd say he's more like the DH version of Jeff Reardon -- but the correlation hasn't been clearly defined between the two roles.

I guess you could make the case than Hoffman is one of the 2-3 best closers (non-Rivera category) in modern baseball.  Baines is something like the 8th-best full time DH.  So one you get past the "should we be electing the 8th best closer/DH at all" hangup he might be more Reardon than Hoffman.