Who is filling out the lineup?

[mdbdotcom]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

So you think  who fills out the lineup changes when the O's are ready to win?

If I thought that I would have said it.

[Going Underground]

24 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Doesn't a quote exists where he states he barely talked to Frank and Brooks?

The distance Weaver kept from his players, with no desire whatsoever to be their friend, but rather to be their leader, was his defining trait to me. That distance gave him authority and made every day at the park feel just a little bit dangerous. What would Earl do? What might he not do, if he felt like it? No contemporary team, in my experience, was on its toes in the sense that Weaver’s Orioles always were.

“We are all on speaking terms. We have a little rapport. Not too much,” Weaver told me, regarding his relationships with his players. “You learn the lesson the first day in Class D [what the lowest rung of the minor leagues was once called]. You’re always going to be a rotten bastard, or in my case, a little bastard, as long as you manage. That’s the rule. To keep your job, you fire others or bench them or trade them. You have to do the thinking for 25 guys and you can’t be too close to any of them.”

Weaver never allowed managing to be a pleasure to him. It was work. And while he loved a loose, goofy clubhouse with characters and high jinks, one where you argued and let off steam one day, then started fresh with clean air the next, he never pretended to be a friend to anyone except his coaches. Every star he ever had “except Brooks Robinson,” ended up denouncing him, refusing to believe it when The End came to their careers.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/earl-weaver-words-from-a-baseball-master/2013/01/19/8e320e6c-626a-11e2-9940-6fc488f3fecd_story.html?utm_term=.574d4bb0db85

[jamalshw]

Hyde fills out the lineup. I expect there will be expectations for playing time for certain players for evaluation and developmental purposes. I also expect that Hyde will provide input to Elias about what he sees in terms of player personalities and growth. There's the human element of the game to consider outside of the algorithms that factor in to decisions and I think Elias understands that and will use Hyde to help gauge that.

[Just Regular]

10 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

However, there’s one more thing to consider. Jim Russo, a co-writer on the report, was a legendary scout for the Orioles. He is considered one of the all-time greats. He had a high track record for being right.

So what he and fellow scout Al Kubski filed on Sept. 16, 1966 contains some telling clues about Koufax.

Specifically, it looks as if Koufax was beginning to lose his legendary curve ball. They wrote:

It now lacks its former velocity and sharpness. Still has his sharp breaking curve ball but has not thrown this pitch for strikes. His big breaking curve has been hanging and this is why he has stayed with his fastball more.”

Throwing a curveball puts the most strain on the elbow. So it is telling that Russo notes that Koufax only threw two curves in the last three innings of the game he scouted. Perhaps throwing the curveball was getting to be too much for him?

Russo also wrote that Koufax’s fastball only was a “TWO.” Not exactly sure what this means, but they noted that it often rises out of the strike zone. He thought batters were helping out Koufax by swing at the high fastball that otherwise would have been balls. He implored the Orioles to lay off the high fastball.

http://jewishbaseballmuseum.com/spotlight-story/fifty-years-ago-final-scouting-report-koufax-provide-clue-decision-retire-30/

Thank you - that is a treasure!

Today fantasy players deciding whether to stream Rich Hill or not in their ESPN league might review the curveball spin from his May 8 start with their coffee the next morning.  And those are just the hobbyists!

[DrungoHazewood]

35 minutes ago, Woody Held said:

The makeup of today’s players is much different than those in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s

People are people, but they tend to have different attitudes when salary and continued employment in baseball depended on them falling in line with management on pretty much everything.  If the owner docked his pay 25% because he hit .290 instead of .300 their choice was to say "sir, yes sir" or hold out and alienate the entire fanbase forever.

[scOtt]

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I, for one, am glad they went with the Android over the Apple product.

I salute our new Android overlords!

[interloper]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

I think its a interesting question because for 64 years the manager has decided who will be in the O's lineup.   Will that change?

I really do not understand what exactly is making you SO CERTAIN that Hyde will not fill out a lineup card? He's the manager! That's what he does!

I feel like I'm losing my mind. 

Anyone?

Wildcard sometimes you slip into a weird obsessive conspiracy certainty thing and I don't get it. Love you tho. 

[interloper]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

The lineup could change quite a bit day to day.  There could be platoons at 1B, CF, 3B.  Maybe even catcher.

And why, again, is Hyde unqualified to know when to platoon a guy? Is he an idiot or something? Dude has managed in the minor leagues and done all these things.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

I really do not understand what exactly is making you SO CERTAIN that Hyde will not fill out a lineup card? He's the manager! That's what he does!

I feel like I'm losing my mind. 

Anyone?

Wildcard sometimes you slip into a weird obsessive conspiracy certainty thing and I don't get it. Love you tho. 

Let's not get carried away, he's not SO CERTAIN, but he's certainly implying it.

Again, my stance is....who cares?

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Let's not get carried away, he's not SO CERTAIN, but he's certainly implying it.

Again, my stance is....who cares?

My stance is there's no evidence to suggest that a) a manager needs a bench coach to fill out a lineup card, b) a manager who has been in the game his whole life and managed in the minors does not have the capacity to fill out a lineup card, c) Elias wants to micromanage a 60-70 win roster on the DAILY, d) anything we've learned in the last few months suggests the manager will not be in charge of his 25-man roster on a game-by-game basis. 

Frankly, it's absurd. 

And also, yeah, who cares either way but I'm not sure how we got from "Cossins will act as a bench coach for the most part but isn't officially labeled as such" to "Mike Elias is filling out the lineup card every single day because there might be a platoon". Huh???

[scOtt]

5 hours ago, wildcard said:

So I went back and listened to the press conference where Brandon was announced.   I agree that Elias said that Hyde will make the in game moves.   But  Elias also said that he and Brandon view the approach as a partnership between the manager and the FO. Working collaboratively in an open manner communicating constantly.

So who makes out the lineup?

I more got the feeling he meant Roster moves, who to call up, who to take north out of ST. Not the lineup. Also got the feeling that it may be collaborative in that Mike and Sig might have #s that show (for ex.) Mullins should be leading off, give him a good long look there. But for everyday lineup, matchups both pitching and batting, that's Hyde's domain. He will have all the data he needs on that and make the decision himself.

I also recall Elias saying (correct me on this) that it's also Hyde's prerogative to go with his gut. Basically that he is the manager, period.

[atomic]

4 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Remember, the difference between a theoretically perfect lineup and a theoretically ridiculous lineup can be as much as 15-20 runs a year.

So in the perfect line-up Chris Davis is lead-off hitter? 

[foxfield]

10 minutes ago, scOtt said:

I salute our new Android overlords!

Im sorry, you must first address me.  Such as:

 

Alexa, I salute our new Android overlords!

[DrungoHazewood]

8 minutes ago, atomic said:

So in the perfect line-up Chris Davis is lead-off hitter? 

I wouldn't think so, it doesn't appear to make sense to give a guy with a .220 OBP the most at bats, but then again I haven't really run the numbers.  Have you?  

What I do know is that the difference between any two semi-reasonable lineups is small enough to not be able to tell which will work out better.  If someone tells you any one lineup will definitely score more than another they have more confidence than knowledge.

[scOtt]

2 hours ago, eddie83 said:

Maybe it’s just me but if I am Elias the last thing I am worried about is lineup construction. Let Hyde learn  on the job. A benefit of not expecting to be any good is that it allows for more growth on the job without cost.  

Not to mention that Mike (and Sig) have umpteen other things on their plates than to have to fill out a lineup every day too.