The rise and fall on the O's starting pitching

[mdbdotcom]

4 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Did Bundy’s velocity improve when the weather warmed up last season? Bundy was topping out at 92 yesterday, which is going to be very hittable without good control and pitch selection. 

Bundy topped out at 93 yesterday, but they weren't good pitches. He was very good at changing the eye level on his fastball and got lots of swings and misses on fastballs at the top of the zone, even though they were in the 90-92 range. Last year his fastballs up were crushed. Perhaps the work in spring training has helped him improve his spin rate on those. I don't know.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Just now, mdbdotcom said:

Bundy topped out at 93 yesterday, but they weren't good pitches. He was very good at changing the eye level on his fastball and got lots of swings and misses on fastballs at the top of the zone, even though they were in the 90-92 range. Last year his fastballs up were crushed. Perhaps the work in spring training has helped him improve his spin rate on those. I don't know.

One thing that helped yesterday was the 10 mph differential on his fastball and offspeed pitches. Bundy needs to work on his control, but not giving up home runs was a big improvement. 

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Stephen Strasburg is rocking a 6.00 ERA right now.
J.A. Happ has a 9.00.
Carlos Carrasco has a 12.46.
Eduardo Rodriguez has a 10.38.
Blake Snell has a 7.50.
Cole Hamels has a 9.00.
Noah Syndergaard has a 6.00.

There are four entire teams in the MLB with ERAs greater than 8.00.

What does this all mean?  Not much, but that's sort of the point.  

You're cherry picking.   I would not be asking about Bundy and Cashner if they had good seasons last year or if the had good springs.  But they didn't.  I don't think its fair to pick out one comment about their first games without addressing their performance for the last year.

[Frobby]

By the way, did anyone notice that Hyde said if the O’s had scored in the bottom of the 8th, he wouldn’t have used Givens in the 9th?    But with a 3-run lead he left him in — sounds like managing to the save rule to me!

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

By the way, did anyone notice that Hyde said if the O’s had scored in the bottom of the 8th, he wouldn’t have used Givens in the 9th?    But with a 3-run lead he left him in — sounds like managing to the save rule to me!

I am not sure it was the save rule as much as it was respect for the Yankee offense compared to other O's relievers than Givens.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

You're cherry picking.   I would not be asking about Bundy and Cashner if they had good seasons last year or if the had good springs.  But they didn't.  I don't think its fair to pick out one comment about their first games without addressing their performance for the last year.

The reality is this: teams make a decision at the start of the year about who is going to be in the rotation, and once they make that decision, they are going to give those pitchers some decent amount of time to demonstrate whether that decision was right or wrong.  So, while you are correct that Bundy and Cashner were both disappointing last season and not that impressive this spring, they are going to be in our rotation for a while no matter how poorly they do, and one start isn’t going to change that.    

[Aglets]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I am not sure it was the save rule as much as it was respect for the Yankee offense compared to other O's relievers than Givens.

Yea i'm fine with the manager managing different if our team is up by 7 runs vs if they're up by 2 or 3.

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

The reality is this: teams make a decision at the start of the year about who is going to be in the rotation, and once they make that decision, they are going to give those pitchers some decent amount of time to demonstrate whether that decision was right or wrong.  So, while you are correct that Bundy and Cashner were both disappointing last season and not that impressive this spring, they are going to be in our rotation for a while no matter how poorly they do, and one start isn’t going to change that.    

I didn't say one start would change anything.  I said that in three rotation cycles some in the pen may be stretched out enough to be considered for starts.  If Bundy and Cashner are still not going deep in games then Hyde will have a decision to make.

Of course if Bundy and/or Cashner begin pitching better they will hold their rotation spots.

[SteveA]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

By the way, did anyone notice that Hyde said if the O’s had scored in the bottom of the 8th, he wouldn’t have used Givens in the 9th?    But with a 3-run lead he left him in — sounds like managing to the save rule to me!

Givens was already in the game so it was a save situation for him based on the score when he came in,even if we had scores ten run in the top of the 9th.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Yea i'm fine with the manager managing different if our team is up by 7 runs vs if they're up by 2 or 3.

Do you think 3 vs. 4 is a big difference, in terms of how to manage the game?    To me, if I’ve got a pitcher who has pitched on consecutive days and has thrown 26 pitches in his first inning of work, the difference between a 3-run and 4-run lead is not material to my decision about whether to send that pitcher out for a second inning of work.    

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I didn't say one start would change anything.  I said that in three rotation cycles some in the pen may be stretched out enough to be considered for starts.  If Bundy and Cashner are still not going deep in games then Hyde will have a decision to make.

Of course if Bundy and/or Cashner begin pitching better they will hold their rotation spots.

First of all, I hope Cashner and Bundy will pitch better the next two starts and render this discussion moot.   

Having said that, I will stick to my prediction that they will be in the rotation through at least Memorial Day so long as they’re healthy, almost regardless of how well they pitch.    

[sportsfan8703]

If Gardner doesn’t have a successful 12 pitch AB off Means, are we saying Bundy had a good first outing?

Tough strike zone. Tough lineup. Not worried about Bundy. 

I think we have a bunch of 3 IP Ps at this point. It’ll be interesting to see if some of them can break out. We’re going to frustrate some teams early on not leaving a guy in to get rocked too much and throwing a bunch of guys with no MLB scouting book. 

[foxfield]

9 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I didn't say one start would change anything.  I said that in three rotation cycles some in the pen may be stretched out enough to be considered for starts.  If Bundy and Cashner are still not going deep in games then Hyde will have a decision to make.

Of course if Bundy and/or Cashner begin pitching better they will hold their rotation spots.

Wildcard, I think I look at it like this:

Hyde is going to do the most he can with whatever he can.  I think the minute he believes he has better options than Bundy or Cashner, he will use them.  And I think until he does he will maximize whatever they and others give him.  

I think it would be a mistake to look at a line up or pitching decision and try to examine it the way we did with Buck.  Whether it is analytics or whether it is the freedom to experiment, I just think Hyde's loyalties will be to system and not individual players.

[BohKnowsBmore]

10 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You're cherry picking.   I would not be asking about Bundy and Cashner if they had good seasons last year or if the had good springs.  But they didn't.  I don't think its fair to pick out one comment about their first games without addressing their performance for the last year.

Of course I'm cherry picking... 

One game is too early to make decisions from whether they had a good year or a bad year last season.

[Frobby]

18 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Givens was already in the game so it was a save situation for him based on the score when he came in,even if we had scores ten run in the top of the 9th.

Good point!