O's listening to trade offers for Givens

[DrungoHazewood]

34 minutes ago, atomic said:

Those listings are meaningless. Markakis was 2.6 WAR last season and is already 0.9 WAR This season.  Dwight Smith JR is 0.4 War this season and -0.1 WAR last season. And they don't even play the same position.  Markakis is a right fielder and Smith Jr is a left fielder. 

Throw out the specifics.  Signing 34-year-olds to $6M contracts isn't some secret new way to rebuild.  It's a way to ensure you've spent $6M on a below-average player you'll be lucky to trade in July for a so-so prospect and relief from the last $2M of his deal.

Didn't you watch the 2007 Orioles?

[panick]

2 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

Atomic is on ignore for me, but I can pretty much predict that his bone of contention is that last year's firesell was stupid and didnt give anything in return.

Doesn't matter that it was under a different Ownership and GM org at the time, let keep living in the past.

Elias has a plan, and that involves better drafting and being in the international draft market.

Of course, that can't happen fast enough for Atomic, so until then, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.

Most of us knew this year was going to be hard at times to follow, but to sit back and be so vocal and upset about the results is crazy.

Me too.

[OFFNY]

2 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

 

Atomic is on ignore for me.

 

 

 

Just now, panick said:

 

Me too.

 

o

 

No need to panic, Panick.

 

o

[panick]

3 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

 

 

o

 

No need to panic, Panick.

 

o

No panic, but definitely no Atomic.

[mdbdotcom]

1 minute ago, panick said:

No panic, but definitely no Atomic.

At least not until Skynet becomes self aware.

[atomic]

1 hour ago, panick said:

Me too.

If you are truly ignoring someone you don't post about how you are ignoring them all the time. 

[Frobby]

20 hours ago, atomic said:

How is it trolling to state that are farm system looks pretty bare.  The team wont be better next season.  

Not really possible to know.

[Frobby]

17 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Markakis got a hometown discount, and the weighted average of his last five years is a below-average player.  The three projection systems on Fangraphs have Markakis as a 1.0 win player in 2019.  Dwight Smith Jr is listed as a 0.9 win player.  You would have signed Markakis over Smith, spent an extra $5-6M, and gotten basically the same production.

But we love Nick!   And Fangraphs can stuff it!    He was worth 2.6 rWAR last year and already has been worth 0.9 this year.    Their projection systems can go take a hike!

No, signing Nick would not have been the right move, even though I would have loved it.    Gotta give the Smiths of the world a shot and see if we can identify a nugget or two amongst the rubble.   

[LA2]

17 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

How does buying into a declining asset at eight times the minimum salary allow you to rebuild?  Signing players in their 30s is an exercise in guessing when they'll fall off the cliff.  You don't turn 50-win teams into 80- or 90-win teams by signing 35-year old 1-2 win players at $4M, $6M, $8M a year.  That's a sure way to win 73 games and have a $110M payroll, and not much (or anything) left to rebuild the infrastructure and talent base.

Markakis got a hometown discount, and the weighted average of his last five years is a below-average player.  The three projection systems on Fangraphs have Markakis as a 1.0 win player in 2019.  Dwight Smith Jr is listed as a 0.9 win player.  You would have signed Markakis over Smith, spent an extra $5-6M, and gotten basically the same production.

I've heard that called "too big to fail."

[LA2]

15 hours ago, atomic said:

If you are truly ignoring someone you don't post about how you are ignoring them all the time. 

Actually, a problem with the Ignores is that the posts you want to avoid still show up in others' posts when they Quote.

[makoman]

Jay Payton was worth 2.0 rWAR the year before he signed with us. A quality major leaguer. Then we paid him $9.5M to give us 0.7 in two years. But hey, at least we won 68 games in 2008, it might have been only 66 or 67! 

Ty Wigginton was worth 2.2 rWAR the year before we signed him. Quality major leaguer. We paid him 2/$6M to give us 0.1 WAR during two more years with wins in the 60s.

Gerrett Atkins of course got $4M to be worth -1.3 rWAR in 44 games in 2010. He was a qualit...(wait, he had last had a positive WAR in 2007? I remember that signing being bad, but wow) But yeah, I suppose if we didn't sign him and just burned $4M in a ceremony in the middle of the field we may have done better than 66 wins that year.

Spending tens of millions of dollars trying to go from 60 wins to 68 is just dumb, especially for a mid marketish team like ours.

[LA2]

3 minutes ago, makoman said:

Jay Payton was worth 2.0 rWAR the year before he signed with us. A quality major leaguer. Then we paid him $9.5M to give us 0.7 in two years. But hey, at least we won 68 games in 2008, it might have been only 66 or 67! 

Ty Wigginton was worth 2.2 rWAR the year before we signed him. Quality major leaguer. We paid him 2/$6M to give us 0.1 WAR during two more years with wins in the 60s.

Gerrett Atkins of course got $4M to be worth -1.3 rWAR in 44 games in 2010. He was a qualit...(wait, he had last had a positive WAR in 2007? I remember that signing being bad, but wow) But yeah, I suppose if we didn't sign him and just burned $4M in a ceremony in the middle of the field we may have done better than 66 wins that year.

Spending tens of millions of dollars trying to go from 60 wins to 68 is just dumb, especially for a mid marketish team like ours.

Vlad Guerrero 7.61 million, then he retired.
Derrek Lee 7.25 million, then he retired.

Seth Smith, 7 million, then he retired.

Corey Patteron, 4.3 million, then he retired one year later.

Delmon Young, 2.2 million, then he retired.

Travis Snider, 2.1 million, then he retired.

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Vlad Guerrero 7.61 million, then he retired.
Derrek Lee 7.25 million, then he retired.

Seth Smith, 7 million, then he retired.

Corey Patteron, 4.3 million, then he retired one year later.

Delmon Young, 2.2 million, then he retired.

Travis Snider, 2.1 million, then he retired.

 

 

The O's were the last stop on the rail.

Heck Rasmus retired, played for the O's and retired again.

[LA2]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The O's were the last stop on the rail.

Heck Rasmus retired, played for the O's and retired again.

It's sorta fun to do, especially if you get to chew the fat with Buck Showalter.

[makoman]

16 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Vlad Guerrero 7.61 million, then he retired.
Derrek Lee 7.25 million, then he retired.

Seth Smith, 7 million, then he retired.

Corey Patteron, 4.3 million, then he retired one year later.

Delmon Young, 2.2 million, then he retired.

Travis Snider, 2.1 million, then he retired.

 

 

At least Derrek Lee proved you can sign a vet like this and flip him at the deadline.