How much longer do we have to wait?

[TyCobb]

Really? Do you think Ramon outhits Wieters if he was moved to AA?

I don't see how that matters.

[Three Run Homer]

The reasons for keeping MW in the minors are pretty straightforward.

Ramon needs AB's to build up trade value, there's no sense in eating that contract when we may yet be able to move him. There's absolutely no need to bring MW up here until he's going to be our regular catcher.

If Ramon is moved then MW can come up and replace him but even then he has done a lot of catching this year, including winter ball in Hawaii. It may be more beneficial for him to rest his knees in September.

These are the only reasons I can agree with for keeping Matt out of Baltimore.

I think this is exactly what MacPhail is thinking, but in the big scheme of things I think it's faulty logic. If we release Ramon now, we're on the hook for his salary through next season. If we trade Ramon later this month, we'll probably have to pay his salary next season, and from what I hear we'll get at most someone like Taylor Tankersley back, a fringe player.

Is it worth delaying Weiters development and hurting the major league team on the field (because to me it's obvious that Weiters would be a better player than Ramon right now), just in the hopes of getting Taylor Tankersley rather than nothing for Ramon? Personally I don't think so.

For those of you who want Tex to sign here, keep in mind that we'll have a better chance of doing that if we play well down the stretch. Weiters could give this team a big lift competitively down the stretch.

I suppose the other argument for waiting is that another contending team might lose a catcher to injury this month, so maybe we could get a better deal for Ramon by getting a bidding war going with Florida. If we buy this logic, then I could defend keeping Weiters at Bowie through September 1st, but on September 1st, I think you need to bring him up and make him the everyday catcher.

[Sports Guy]

I don't disagree with that statement, but there is no way Wieters out hits Ramon if he was called up today to the Majors.

Do you mean you don';t think Wieters has a 909 OPS in a small sample size or not put up the overall OPS of a little over 700 that he has put up the last 2 seasons?

[Big Mac]

I don't disagree with that statement, but there is no way Wieters out hits Ramon if he was called up today to the Majors.

I disagree. Wieters could see his OPS drop 300 points from AA to the Majors, and he would still have a .792 OPS, compared to Ramon's .733 OPS.

[wildcard]

Relatively meaningless if he doesn't have to make adjustments in his game.

Keeping Wieters at AA is not only about Wieters. It is about all the prospects at AA. They all learn to win together.

[TyCobb]

Do you mean you don';t think Wieters has a 909 OPS in a small sample size or not put up the overall OPS of a little over 700 that he has put up the last 2 seasons?

Well Ramon hit .796 and .923 OPS in June and July. I think Ramon is going to at least hit .750 OPS from here on out. I don't see Wieters hitting over .750 when he first gets called up.

[sector7g]

I think this is exactly what MacPhail is thinking, but in the big scheme of things I think it's faulty logic. If we release Ramon now, we're on the hook for his salary through next season. If we trade Ramon later this month, we'll probably have to pay his salary next season, and from what I hear we'll get at most someone like Taylor Tankersley back, a fringe player.

Is it worth delaying Weiters development and hurting the major league team on the field (because to me it's obvious that Weiters would be a better player than Ramon right now), just in the hopes of getting Taylor Tankersley rather than nothing for Ramon? Personally I don't think so.

For those of you who want Tex to sign here, keep in mind that we'll have a better chance of doing that if we play well down the stretch. Weiters could give this team a big lift competitively down the stretch.

I suppose the other argument for waiting is that another contending team might lose a catcher to injury this month, so maybe we could get a better deal for Ramon by getting a bidding war going with Florida. If we buy this logic, then I could defend keeping Weiters at Bowie through September 1st, but on September 1st, I think you need to bring him up and make him the everyday catcher.

If we're going to have to eat all Ramon's contract then you're right, we may as well cut him loose now. If we do manage to move him though I'm sure we wouldn't be paying the whole thing and certainly we need to find that out before doing anything drastic.

[sector7g]

Well Ramon hit .796 and .923 OPS in June and July. I think Ramon is going to at least hit .750 OPS from here on out. I don't see Wieters hitting over .750 when he first gets called up.

Honestly I think that's likely the least he would hit. Lots of guys hit over .750 when they first come up and the majority of those have a less advanced bat than Matt does now.

[TyCobb]

Honestly I think that's likely the least he would hit. Lots of guys hit over .750 when they first come up and the majority of those have a less advanced bat than Matt does now.

I am willing to bet there a more that don't hit over .750.

[Big Mac]

Well Ramon hit .796 and .923 OPS in June and July. I think Ramon is going to at least hit .750 OPS from here on out. I don't see Wieters hitting over .750 when he first gets called up.

Do you realize Wieters could lose 342 OPS points and still have a .750 OPS? I'm not sure, but I think that would be a pretty unprecented drop in OPS from AA to the majors.

[Sports Guy]

Keeping Wieters at AA is not only about Wieters. It is about all the prospects at AA. They all learn to win together.

Strawman...How many guys do you think are better players today because they contended in AA?

I mean, it is nice to win and learn to win but it is a bs reason.

Nothing compares to learning on the job, actually being challenged and getting your feet wet for when we do want to contend.

[Sports Guy]

Well Ramon hit .796 and .923 OPS in June and July. I think Ramon is going to at least hit .750 OPS from here on out. I don't see Wieters hitting over .750 when he first gets called up.

It would be a minor miracle if he(Wieters) doesn't have a 750 OPS from here on out.

[TyCobb]

Do you realize Wieters could lose 342 OPS points and still have a .750 OPS? I'm not sure, but I think that would be a pretty unprecented drop in OPS from AA to the majors.

Wieters is hitting in AA. Ramon is hitting in the Majors. That is a very big difference. And I don't think it is unprecedented to have a big drop off in OPS from AA to MLB.

Markakis had a near 1.000 OPS AA and he didn't touch 700 OPS in the 1st half of his rookie season.

[Sports Guy]

Wieters cummalative MLE is a 771 OPS and remember, that is in pitcher's leagues and parks.

Now, in a small sample size, anything could happen but he is clearly better than Ramon in every facet.

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/cgi-bin/pl.cgi

[geschinger]

Nothing compares to learning on the job, actually being challenged and getting your feet wet for when we do want to contend.

Well said. The best thing for his development IMO is to be pushed, to have to overcome some adversity. He's not being pushed where he is at and I don't see how that is good for his development.