How much longer do we have to wait?

[Roll Tide]

Right, because what's a month or more of experience both facing and catching major league (or even Triple-A) pitchers when Bowie can win the Eastern League.

I don't want to be too sarcastic, but why on Earth should something like that come ahead of the overall good of the organization.

Because more often than not rushing a guy to the major causes more harm than good. The Orioles should send him to AAA to start next season & allow him to produce there. Its been said on here that the talent is batter at AA than triple AAA. In the Orioles case this may be true but I doubt its the case baseball wide. Otherwise they should flip flop rosters. The O's under AM dont appear like they are going to fall in the trap of rushing him.

[Mike B]

How about he is the best catcher in the organization? Should that play a role. If they keep Hernandez through the year and we don't see Wieters until OD 2009 I am ok with that, but Wieters is the best catcher in our organization.

The fact that he is the best catcher in the organization should not play a role. This year is irrelevant in regards to Wieters being here. We are not going to win whether he is here or not. The question is, is the organization better served long term by delaying Wieters. IMO the answer is definitely yes. I think you will have you answer on whether the organization plans to start him at AAA next year by whether he is brought up in September. If the organization starts his service clock in September it tells me the plans are for him to break camp in April with the team. Many have rightfully pointed out that even if he cane up this minute, he would still have to play 6 years in Baltimore, before we have to deal with Boras shopping him around the majors. However if he does not come up on 9-1 be prepared to be aggravated when they send him down in march. By doing that they can start him at Norfolk and then control him at least through 2115. Bringing him up now and keeping him forthe entire year next year exposes him in 2114. AM is going to do what is best for the organization long term. Again is it totally fair, probably not but Boras will not give a rip about being fair in any player negotiations.

One last point. Ramon is aggravating on defense but is hitting well again, so would Wieters make a real difference now anyway. Maybe yes, maybe no.

[Fairfax Bird]

The fact that he is the best catcher in the organization should not play a role. This year is irrelevant in regards to Wieters being here. We are not going to win whether he is here or not. The question is, is the organization better served long term by delaying Wieters. IMO the answer is definitely yes. I think you will have you answer on whether the organization plans to start him at AAA next year by whether he is brought up in September. If the organization starts his service clock in September it tells me the plans are for him to break camp in April with the team. Many have rightfully pointed out that even if he cane up this minute, he would still have to play 6 years in Baltimore, before we have to deal with Boras shopping him around the majors. However if he does not come up on 9-1 be prepared to be aggravated when they send him down in march. By doing that they can start him at Norfolk and then control him at least through 2115. Bringing him up now and keeping him forthe entire year next year exposes him in 2114. AM is going to do what is best for the organization long term. Again is it totally fair, probably not but Boras will not give a rip about being fair in any player negotiations.

One last point. Ramon is aggravating on defense but is hitting well again, so would Wieters make a real difference now anyway. Maybe yes, maybe no.

I see things a little differently, but these are excellent points. I don't care about service time and starting his clock. I just want to see what is best for him and his player development. I have seen Jones and Markakis struggle mightly to ML pitching in their first two months in the majors. Longoria is another case where it took him a month or so to adjust. I think you bring him up sooner, let him adjust and he will be ready to be the starter on OD 2009. He has nothing to prove in the minors and moving him to AAA may help a little in his development, but bringing him up to BMore will help more.

[Moose Milligan]

Service time worries are for poor, losing organizations.

Good organizations get their players ready for the majors, bring them up when they are ready, and build around them.

This sarcasm Bterp? Cause I pretty much agree with it....

Dunno, I think a month up here will be helpful to him....if he has any weaknesses, he can figure out what they are and work on them over the winter.

He hasn't faced any adversity yet. I highly doubt that he thinks that the MLB will be a cakewalk, either.

But he needs to face a little resistance. And I think if he's up in September and gets some at bats and figures out what his weaknesses are, it'll help him this winter and make him a more productive player for us next summer.

[SJA]

Right, because what's a month or more of experience both facing and catching major league (or even Triple-A) pitchers when Bowie can win the Eastern League.

Yes...I'd hate for these players to experience winning.

I don't want to be too sarcastic, but why on Earth should something like that come ahead of the overall good of the organization.

And I suppose that you know what is "the overall good of the organization". :scratchchinhmm:

[Mike B]

I see things a little differently, but these are excellent points. I don't care about service time and starting his clock. I just want to see what is best for him and his player development. I have seen Jones and Markakis struggle mightly to ML pitching in their first two months in the majors. Longoria is another case where it took him a month or so to adjust. I think you bring him up sooner, let him adjust and he will be ready to be the starter on OD 2009. He has nothing to prove in the minors and moving him to AAA may help a little in his development, but bringing him up to BMore will help more.

You make good points, and I would agree if I thought the Oriole organization was poised to compete for the playoffs in 2009. I hope I am wrong but I do not feel they think they will be ready by next year based on pitching. That said service time becomes very important. Lets say they do what the majority on the board want. They bring Wieters up in September and then start him on OD in 2009. He develops into the next Super Star catcher and the Orioles sign him to a series of one year contracts. I know that starting by the end of next year there will be a million lock up Wieters post now, which makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, his agent is Scott Boras who always maximizes out his players income. He does that by taking the player into free agency as quickly as possible dictated by the rules. Now it is 2114 and Matt Wieters is the best catcher in baseball and is 29 years old. Does Boras give the Orioles the hometown discount and sign him. He** no. He takes Wieters to free agency because he knows that a switch hitting super star catcher brings top $$$ and that a normal star catcher starts to decline around 32-33 years old because of the demand. Therefore he needs to strike now. The New York Yankees needing a super star catcher call the greedy Mr. Boras and offer Wieters ownership of the team plus New Yankee stadium and off he goes. The board erupts wondering how this could happen because it has never happened before, unless you count Mussina.

[wildcard]

April 15th. MacPhail will take the long view for the sake of the organization. Wieters will have all Spring Training to adjust to major league pitching. He does not need to be called up this season.

[Sports Guy]

It is a joke that he is still in the minors.

I can't believe people are still defending this.

[Fairfax Bird]

You make good points, and I would agree if I thought the Oriole organization was poised to compete for the playoffs in 2009. I hope I am wrong but I do not feel they think they will be ready by next year based on pitching. That said service time becomes very important. Lets say they do what the majority on the board want. They bring Wieters up in September and then start him on OD in 2009. He develops into the next Super Star catcher and the Orioles sign him to a series of one year contracts. I know that starting by the end of next year there will be a million lock up Wieters post now, which makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, his agent is Scott Boras who always maximizes out his players income. He does that by taking the player into free agency as quickly as possible dictated by the rules. Now it is 2114 and Matt Wieters is the best catcher in baseball and is 29 years old. Does Boras give the Orioles the hometown discount and sign him. He** no. He takes Wieters to free agency because he knows that a switch hitting super star catcher brings top $$$ and that a normal star catcher starts to decline around 32-33 years old because of the demand. Therefore he needs to strike now. The New York Yankees needing a super star catcher call the greedy Mr. Boras and offer Wieters ownership of the team plus New Yankee stadium and off he goes. The board erupts wondering how this could happen because it has never happened before, unless you count Mussina.

Waiting until May of next year to delay his free agency clock just makes the relationship more contentious. I just don't see the point in it.

[Ruzious]

Yes...I'd hate for these players to experience winning.

Send them all down to Delmarva if it's that important to win at a minor league level. Give them all gold stars and snack packs.

The logic of the other argument is just as weak - keeping him from being FA eligible for an extra year. That's the definition of penny wise and pound (dollar, for the youngsters) foolish. Sure, it might mean a few million extra that they pay him over the life of a very long term contract. We are talking about the best prospect in baseball. If your smart, you do what's best to develop him as a player quickest. That means to play him where he's going to be challenged - now - and where he'll learn - now. He doesn't need a minor league merit badge - He's a 22 year old man; treating him like a boy ain't gonna help.

[Big Mac]

It is a joke that he is still in the minors.

I can't believe people are still defending this.

I have to agree, he is hands down the best player in all of the minor leagues, IMO.

His OPS this season is over 100 points better than Jay Bruce's Mil OPS last season. (altough Bruce was 2 years younger). Then when you add in the fact Bruce is an OF and Wieters is a catcher, it becomes even more impressive.

People argue that bringing up Wieters might hurt his development, well letting his bat waste away at Bowie certainly isn't helping his development.

[Mike B]

It is a joke that he is still in the minors.

I can't believe people are still defending this.

As one defending this I can not believe you do not see the other side. The reason for bringing him up now is basically the fans want to see him. My reasons for keeping him down are documented above. He may very well be the best catcher we have but there is really not a need for him now. If we were 3 games out of the playoffs the reasons for him would be sound. We are not, the team is playing better than what we expected so let him stay in the minors.

[Sports Guy]

As one defending this I can not believe you do not see the other side. The reason for bringing him up now is basically the fans want to see him. My reasons for keeping him down are documented above. He may very well be the best catcher we have but there is really not a need for him now. If we were 3 games out of the playoffs the reasons for him would be sound. We are not, the team is playing better than what we expected so let him stay in the minors.

No its not and if you believe this, it is obvious you aren't paying attention to anything anyone has to say about this.

[Mike B]

I have to agree, he is hands down the best player in all of the minor leagues, IMO.

His OPS this season is over 100 points better than Jay Bruce's Mil OPS last season. (altough Bruce was 2 years younger). Then when you add in the fact Bruce is an OF and Wieters is a catcher, it becomes even more impressive.

People argue that bringing up Wieters might hurt his development, well letting his bat waste away at Bowie certainly isn't helping his development.

ANd Bruce stayed down until May of this year. I have been to Frederick twice and Bowie twice to see Wieters.I have seen him launch 3 long HR's. I sat behind the plate to watch him catch and he is pretty good. He will get better with time. There is more to the game and a player besides OPS, batting average etc. Just saying he is not be hurt in any way by being allowed to cultivate his catching skills, game calling knowledge and by beating the hell out of opposing pitchers. The organization and maybe Wieters is better served by practicing patience.

[Say O!]

Another argument (and not saying that I'm a proponent of it) for keeping Matt in the minors is not only for Bowie to experience winning and the playoffs, but more importantly b/c many of the top organizational pitching prospects are in AA.

There is something to be said with coming up together and winning together. Couple that with the experience of working as a battery, the Tillmans, the Hernandez's, etc. are better off for it. Maybe Matt is best for THEIR development. It takes a team, not just one catcher.