Extending Home Grown vs FA

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

And Caleb Joseph would not be a good  shortstop. Nor Jones for that matter.

You could plug Jones in at left, right, center, DH and maybe first.

You could plug Joseph in at first or DH. (not that Catchers aren't exempt)

Davis is, if being used properly, limited to first and DH.

He has less positional flexibility.

(notice I didn't list Davis or Joseph as a third basemen)

[clapdiddy]

17 minutes ago, wildcard said:

What does limited fielding guy mean?  Davis is a very good fielder.

I just meant that he was limited to one position, which also happens to be the position to which Trumbo is best suited.

[bpilktree]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You could plug Jones in at left, right, center, DH and maybe first.

You could plug Joseph in at first or DH. (not that Catchers aren't exempt)

Davis is, if being used properly, limited to first and DH.

He has less positional flexibility.

(notice I didn't list Davis or Joseph as a third basemen)

So Caleb can play first base though he has never really done it and Davis can't play outfield even though he has been above average in his career as an outfielder and actually when he played it as primary position few years ago well above average.  If Davis would have been a right fielder the entire time he would have been a decent one in right.

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You could plug Jones in at left, right, center, DH and maybe first.

You could plug Joseph in at first or DH. (not that Catchers aren't exempt)

Davis is, if being used properly, limited to first and DH.

He has less positional flexibility.

(notice I didn't list Davis or Joseph as a third basemen)

Davis has played right field and 3rd.  Probably both as well as Joseph plays 1B.

[esmd]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

If they are looking to cut payroll they are doing it wrong.

Exactly.  If they really wanted to cut payroll, trade Jones, Machado, Britton (when he returns), O'Day, Brach, and start the youth movement with the prospects we already have in the system plus some of the return from the traded veterans.  I'd include Davis and Trumbo, but we all know they're not going to be easily moved, esp. Davis.  Maybe Trumbo over the summer if he has a hot first half.

And a lot of fans would be okay with that, assuming these prospects like Hays and Mountcastle can really play.  And they get a decent return in the trades.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

So Caleb can play first base though he has never really done it and Davis can't play outfield even though he has been above average in his career as an outfielder and actually when he played it as primary position few years ago well above average.  If Davis would have been a right fielder the entire time he would have been a decent one in right.

?

Caleb has played 47 games at first,  21 games in left field, and 13 games in right field.

Are folks forgetting that he played a season in the minors as a utility man?

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Davis has played right field and 3rd.  Probably both as well as Joseph plays 1B.

As has Caleb.

Davis wasn't very good at third and right field when he was in his 20's.  He'd be a detriment now.

 

[Frobby]

43 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you honestly think the 2018 team has a realistic chance at even the second wild card as currently constructed?

As for rebuilds, I think they are fun.  The losing part stinks of course but I'd rather watch young kids than overpriced vets if we are going to lose either way.  I also enjoy tracking the minor leagues.

Losing isn’t fun for me, whether the players are old or young.    There’s certainly more hope for the future when they’re younger.

Let’s compare 2009 and 2017.   The 2009 team was very bad (64-98), but that year we saw the debuts of Wieters (23), Bergesen (23), Hernandez (24) , Tillman (21), Matusz (22), Berken (25) and Reimold (25).    Jones was in his 2nd full season at 23, Markakis was 25.    We had Arrieta and Britton developing nicely in the minors.   In a certain way, it was fun to watch, but the team was 10 games under .500 and 10 games behind in the division by June 11 and it just got worse from there.

Contrast that with 2017.    Mancini was about the only notable debut unless you want to count Castro or Ynoa.    And, the team was mediocre for a lot of the year and fell apart in September.    But at least they still had a decent chance up until then.

Overall, I preferred the 2017 season to 2009, just as a fan rooting for my team to have a shot at the playoffs.    2009 was a more hopeful club for the future, and it was fun watching the kids get their feet wet, but I can’t say I enjoyed being hopelessly out of the race by mid-June.   

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

Losing isn’t fun for me, whether the players are old or young.    There’s certainly more hope for the future when they’re younger.

Let’s compare 2009 and 2017.   The 2009 team was very bad (64-98), but that year we saw the debuts of Wieters (23), Bergesen (23), Hernandez (24) , Tillman (21), Matusz (22), Berken (25) and Reimold (25).    Jones was in his 2nd full season at 23, Markakis was 25.    We had Arrieta and Britton developing nicely in the minors.   In a certain way, it was fun to watch, but the team was 10 games under .500 and 10 games behind in the division by June 11 and it just got worse from there.

Contrast that with 2017.    Mancini was about the only notable debut unless you want to count Castro or Ynoa.    And, the team was mediocre for a lot of the year and fell apart in September.    But at least they still had a decent chance up until then.

Overall, I preferred the 2017 season to 2009, just as a fan rooting for my team to have a shot at the playoffs.    2009 was a more hopeful club for the future, and it was fun watching the kids get their feet wet, but I can’t say I enjoyed being hopelessly out of the race by mid-June.   

I figure they are going to lose either way.

I'd rather lose a few more with young guys.

[theocean]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you honestly think the 2018 team has a realistic chance at even the second wild card as currently constructed?

As for rebuilds, I think they are fun.  The losing part stinks of course but I'd rather watch young kids than overpriced vets if we are going to lose either way.  I also enjoy tracking the minor leagues.

Quite honestly, if the O's can add two starters who can keep them in games - I don't see why this team can't compete with the Twins, Angels, and Mariners for the second wild card. Outside of the Yankees, Red Sox, Indians, and Astros - the AL is kind of mediocre to outright weak.

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, theocean said:

Quite honestly, if the O's can add two starters who can keep them in games - I don't see why this team can't compete with the Twins, Angels, and Mariners for the second wild card. Outside of the Yankees, Red Sox, Indians, and Astros - the AL is kind of mediocre to outright weak.

If............is a big word.

[NCRaven]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

If............is a big word.

No it's not.  It's only two letters.  I and F.  A pretty small word, actually.  

[weams]

10 minutes ago, theocean said:

Quite honestly, if the O's can add two starters who can keep them in games - I don't see why this team can't compete with the Twins, Angels, and Mariners for the second wild card. Outside of the Yankees, Red Sox, Indians, and Astros - the AL is kind of mediocre to outright weak.

It's possible.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, theocean said:

Quite honestly, if the O's can add two starters who can keep them in games - I don't see why this team can't compete with the Twins, Angels, and Mariners for the second wild card. Outside of the Yankees, Red Sox, Indians, and Astros - the AL is kind of mediocre to outright weak.

Put it this way: it would give them a shot.   

Almost in any event, you never know how things will play out.    I’m pessimistic but that doesn’t mean I can’t see scenarios where the O’s are pretty good.    Let’s say Nestor Cortes turns out to be a Miguel Gonzalez-quality starter.    Suddenly, things look a lot different.   There’s a dozen things like that that could happen.   Will they?    I kinda doubt it, but that’s why they play the games.   

[now]

1 hour ago, theocean said:

A team like the O's needs to be able to develop pitching in-house, they just are really bad at it. Thus, the team's situation this offseason.

A true and concise snapshot.