BJ Surhoff Is Angry

[ScGO's]

Surhoff always had a look on his face that made me think he was smelling a fart. 

[Luke-OH]

1 minute ago, ScGO's said:

Surhoff always had a look on his face that made me think he was smelling a fart. 

Off-topic, but this reminded me of something.

My parents were going to name my youngest brother Jesse until my Mom happened to notice the Orioles game I was watching, with Jesse Orosco on the mound. She didn't find Orosco to be an attractive man and decided to pick another name. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Off-topic, but this reminded me of something.

My parents were going to name my youngest brother Jesse until my Mom happened to notice the Orioles game I was watching, with Jesse Orosco on the mound. She didn't find Orosco to be an attractive man and decided to pick another name. 

Did your Mom like Star Wars?

[Frobby]

The naming thing reminds of a story.   I have a partner whose parents let his brother name him to make the older brother feel good about having a baby brother.    That’s why his first and middle names are Clark Kent.

[Luke-OH]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Did your Mom like Star Wars?

My Dad did and I guess my Mom didn't think Mark Hamill was ugly. 

[OregonBird]

This quote tells me there was a clash of philosophies:

“I’m not happy, not at all, that they don’t see a value in what I do. And they’ll spin it some other way: A reallocation of resources and new people and a different, fresh set of eyes,” Surhoff said. “OK, except my eyes have 35 years of experience in pro ball.”

[atomic]

5 hours ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

Surhoff comes off like the grumpy Old Guard of scouts as portrayed in the Moneyball film. I've always liked Surhoff, but I found it humorous.

As a younger fan who's never rooted for a championship caliber O's team, I've grown to lament the endless pumping up and promotion of the great teams and players of Baltimore's distant past, with post-prime Cal being the only one I have any personal memories of. I'm mostly jealous that there are no moments that are seen worthy of celebration that feel like I can call my own. Only exception would be the streak, which barely feels like a baseball accomplishment to me as time goes by.

What I'm trying to get at is.. the Oriole way died a long time ago, and it feels way past due to me for the franchise to start anew and stop clutching so tightly to a past that almost feels like a taunt to those of us who can hardly imagine such a successful baseball club. I get that these promotions are the only thing that gets the aging Orioles fanbase to come out these days given the on field product... And I do think that the club's history is important and worth celebrating ... But it feels so refreshing to see this regime come in and show a commitment to doing things a completely new way. I'm ready for my own Oriole Way. 

You dont feel like the 2014 division championship is worth celebrating? 

[tntoriole]

55 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Don’t want to derail a thread about Surhoff’s comments, but.....no.    Winning the AL East and one playoff series is not as good as winning a World Series or an AL pennant.    Winning 96 regular season games is not as good as winning 109, 108, 102, 101, and 98 and going to the World Series in each of those seasons.   

I enjoyed 2014 plenty, especially after going 17 years without an AL East title.    I’m glad I experienced that again, and it was very satisfying.    But not as satisfying as those others.   

But was 2014 as satisfying as 1997 or 1980 or 1976 or 1973 or 1974 or any other number of season where we did not end up in the World Series? .  That was the point.  Not that there weren’t greater seasons but that 2014 was as legitimate a championship caliber season as any other number of seasons. And I was pretty unhappy if I recall correctly after losing to the Mets, the Pirates...twice.  I don’t remember saying...Man what a fantastic season that was....Of course I was 12...lol.   It was only with a bit of time passing did it become more satisfying.  

And I suspect for those Oriole fans who were 12 at that game where the double cleared the bases in 2014, that they will remember it fondly when they are my age. 

[atomic]

2 hours ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

We have different definitions of success it seems. To me, getting the Gentlemen's Sweep in the ALCS doesn't rise anywhere close to say... the World Series squad of 1983. Not in the same universe. They were a really good team.. not a great team. Not a team that anyone outside of Baltimore will remember.

Context is important here. I'm fully on-board with Elias plan, which includes tanking. But if you tank.. and never get further than the ALCS as a result... that's a big failure. Tanking should result in more than just three seasons of postseason fodder, one of which was a wild card one-and-done. You're putting the fans through way too much to not come up BIG

The 2014 season was more fun than the 1983 team for me.  The 1982 season was my favorite Oriole season.  They fell 1 game short but I dont think any Oriole season comes close to the excitement of that one. I would say 2012 season was my second favorite.  Adam Jones pieing everyone including the fans in 2014 was awesome. 

1979 season was just horrible ending with the Pirates coming back.  The song "we are family" will always lead to flashbacks of sadness.

[atomic]

3 hours ago, waroriole said:

Plenty of disgruntled former employees would say the same, regardless of whether it’s true. People don’t like to be fired. 

Yeah but he didnt just fine 1 or 2 guys so I dont think what you are saying really applies.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Ruzious said:

While I agree with most of what you say, I do take exception to using the word humorous there.  It's never humorous to see someone of Surhoff's stature to get fired and feel disrespected in the process.  I don't know whether or not Elias should have handled things better, but things like that can and should be done with some apathy for the people getting the axe.   

I'm also seeing things from a different lense than you - seeing that I remember fondly the O's teams going back to the late 60's.  Surhoff isn't the distant past form my pov. 

 

Here's what I don't get, how do you show empathy when you fire someone? Elias literally called him. He didn't ignore him or have an underling call, he called him and told them they were going in a different direction.

I've had to fire somebody before and guess what, they didn't like me much afterwards. Who likes to get fired? 

Connolly is losing all of his guys who have talked to him for years, so of course he's going to provide their sides. For me personally, I know some of these people and I feel bad that they've lost their jobs, but let's face it, this is a business where if you work for a team for more than 10 years it's a rarity.

Personally, outside of the ambassador roles that Brooks and Eddie are in, I could care less whether the new instructors/scouts have an Orioles background or not? I want the best people in the positions to make the organization better.

Yes, this seems to be the "nerd" takeover of the long term baseball guys, I get why they are upset, but the game changes as the technology and information available changes. That doesn't mean the old baseball guys weren't good baseball men during their time, but times are changing.

Getting into the professional baseball world of coaching or scouting used to be about who you knew or who you were related to. It was hard to get in of you were outside the sphere. Now, the sphere is the guys with the big degrees or guys working with baseball technology.

Take my case. When I was in my 30s I had a couple of inquiries on whether I wanted to scout but I didn't want to get out of the Army with less then 8 years to go until "retirement". I ended up Associate scouting unofficially for the Orioles (ended up getting an offer to scout for the Mets during this time). When I "retired" from the Army I ended up associate scouting for the Texas Rangers (The only player I brought my scout to come see in Maryland was Josh Hader) and then when my scout moved to another position he recommended me for his position and asked me if I wanted to interview. At the time though, my son was wrestling year 'round and I didn't want to miss things so I respectfully declined.

Years later when he was done wrestling, I thought I'd see if I could get back in but when I got bites, the new area scouts were young guys who must've looked at me as some old school guy (I'm the furthest thing from because I love technology) with no professional baseball playing experience so apparently my free services were not needed.

Now, you look at the guys getting hired and I realize that my resume is not going to compete. At almost 50 I'm considered old and despite my many experiences I realize that my desire to work in professional baseball is not going to be reality. Honestly, with the way things are going and the way people are being let go left and right, it's probably for the best.

But back to the guys getting fired, it sucks for them because even with their extensive baseball resumes less and less opportunities are available to them and certainly not at the salaries they were once making.

At the end of the day though, the results will speak volumes. If Elias turns this franchise around and the team is competing year in and year out, no one is going to care about whether an instructor has an Orioles background or not or whether they are somebody they heard of or some super nerd from MIT who came up with an advantage through analytics or technology.

Like they always say. Just win baby and all will be well for fans.

[Obando]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

There are two issues here:

1.   Should these guys have been fired?

2.   How well were the firings handled, and how was communication before the firings?

Seems like the latter may have been a problem.    But people who get fired rarely like how it was handled.  

The way Elias handled it couldn’t have been any worse than how DD handled communication in general.  Communication was not DD’s strong suit, to put it mildly.  In less than 1 year, Elias has shown me he is a much, much better communicator, at least publicly, than DD ever was in 7 years as GM here.  Could you have ever seen DD tweeting messages to the fans?  Elias is as transparent and communicative as you will find for a GM these days.  I don’t know how much of that is simply his young age (he’s technically a millennial) and the fact that he knows it’s important to communicate with the fans during a rebuild, but whatever it is, I find it very refreshing and hope it remains this way moving forward.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Obando said:

Whether you agree with letting Surhoff go or not (or really any others with long-time Orioles ties), it really comes down to this:  Would you rather Elias be forced to keep certain people, like Peter Angelos used to require of prior GMs, or would you rather he truly have full autonomy to make personnel decisions and build the baseball operation as he sees fit?  Look, I have a soft spot for Oriole players I grew up watching and rooting for, like Surhoff, Brady, etc., but does that mean I think they should be forced on the GM to be a part of the organization if, in the GMs purview, he has no real use for them or doesn’t think they fit his rebuilding vision?  Absolutely not.  So I commend John & Lou Angelos for doing the opposite of their father and giving Elias true autonomy to make the decisions that he thinks gives the Orioles the best chance to be successful in the long term.  That doesn’t mean every decision Elias makes is going to be correct, because everyone makes mistakes and has regrets, but ultimately, these are his decisions and no one else’s, and after years of meddling and mismanagement from ownership, this is extremely refreshing.

As I wrote, the new king disposes of everyone connected with the old king. “It’s just business.”

So I have no argument with him choosing to clean house if he wishes( although one does wonder why Brady is still around.)The only thing I’m saying is that BJ may well have a legitimate beef if the dismissal was as callous as he suggests, and if he was never given an opportunity to show he could produce in the new regime.

Doesn't matter, though. Rude or polite, he’s gone. I just think some empathy( not Apathy, BTW, which is exactly the opposite) is in order, and kindness, even in delivering the bad news, never goes amiss.

[Tx Oriole]

5 hours ago, Going Underground said:

Yup,he has a nickname of the HAG.That is one of the nicer names I heard.Heartless Analytics Guy.

If he helps turn the team around I don’t that he pisses people off.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Luke-OH said:

Off-topic, but this reminded me of something.

My parents were going to name my youngest brother Jesse until my Mom happened to notice the Orioles game I was watching, with Jesse Orosco on the mound. She didn't find Orosco to be an attractive man and decided to pick another name. 

When my middle step child was born, her parents, who are Chinese and wanted to give her an American name in addition to Her Chinese one, allowed their eldest daughter to choose. At the time there a famous businessman was in the news. He had a daughter named Ivana. That was thought to be a delightful name, and so my beloved middle step child is named after Ivana Trump.