If only Elias hadn't traded the 11th best player in baseball (Bundy) for next to nothing

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

Ugh !!! Why did the Mets trade Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi ??? ...... and Amos Otis for Joe Foy ??? ...... and Rusty Staub for Mickey Lolich ??? ...... 

 

o

Because they new Fregosi was going to be a solid manager?

[Aristotelian]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Castro had 4.34 ERA in 6 seasons pitching in the pen ...So lets not pretend that he's horrible.

I will be more interested in the other component to the deal and think that its pretty much a wash at this point. If Smith ends up being a 5+ ERA 5th starter or long man I am sure how much value that will have on our next winning team. But perhaps your right!

I am not a big Castro fan and dont care if he's here or not. But, I'm not convinced that the trade is the big win that some of you think it is! And as I mentioned to SG, I could give a rats a-hole about the money saved this year or the $3million next year that will be added to the Peter Angelos Inheritance fund that will never be seen again.

Don't forget, Castro was acquired for a PTBNL (Jon Keller). From that standpoint, a few years of productive innings plus any return we got from flipping him is all a solid win. 

If you think Elias did not get value for him, what are some examples of 1 WAR-ish relief pitchers heading into 2nd year of arb that got big return at the deadline? 

 

[HowAboutThat]

19 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Castro had 4.34 ERA in 6 seasons pitching in the pen ...So lets not pretend that he's horrible.

Reliever ERA is always deceptive, because it ignored the inherited runners that were allowed to score. I’m not sure which stat is the best for evaluating relievers, but I’d be more interested in a guys walk rate, whip and FIP.

Castro was always dangerous, to both teams, but in different ways.

[HowAboutThat]

19 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Really?   Aren't starting pitchers averaging fewer innings in the last 2 or 3 years than in any era in the history of baseball?

Well, I can certainly wish that Hyde, at least, were a bit quicker with the hook. Not sure I’ve expressed that desire before...

[SteveA]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Don't forget, Castro was acquired for a PTBNL (Jon Keller). From that standpoint, a few years of productive innings plus any return we got from flipping him is all a solid win. 

If you think Elias did not get value for him, what are some examples of 1 WAR-ish relief pitchers heading into 2nd year of arb that got big return at the deadline? 

 

The Astros got a Hall of Famer for Larry Andersen.   The deal which all mid-season reliever deals are measured against.

[survivedc]

32 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Really?   Aren't starting pitchers averaging fewer innings in the last 2 or 3 years than in any era in the history of baseball?

Fine, the quick hook doesn’t exist for relievers anymore, which is what was being discussed. 

[BohKnowsBmore]

12 minutes ago, Philip said:

Well, I can certainly wish that Hyde, at least, were a bit quicker with the hook. Not sure I’ve expressed that desire before...

Rading through game threads during the Buck era, one would think that our pitchers would have had a collective sub-2.00 ERA if the manager had simply pulled the starter when it was OBVIOUS that he should have.

[DrungoHazewood]

36 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Castro had 4.34 ERA in 6 seasons pitching in the pen ...So lets not pretend that he's horrible.

That's around average.  Over the past five years reliever ERAs have gone from 3.93 to 4.46.  So every team uses like 15 relievers a year, the mid point is Castro.

[Can_of_corn]

37 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Castro had 4.34 ERA in 6 seasons pitching in the pen ...So lets not pretend that he's horrible.

I will be more interested in the other component to the deal and think that its pretty much a wash at this point. If Smith ends up being a 5+ ERA 5th starter or long man I am sure how much value that will have on our next winning team. But perhaps your right!

I am not a big Castro fan and dont care if he's here or not. But, I'm not convinced that the trade is the big win that some of you think it is! And as I mentioned to SG, I could give a rats a-hole about the money saved this year or the $3million next year that will be added to the Peter Angelos Inheritance fund that will never be seen again.

But 4.34 out of the pen isn't good either.

[survivedc]

37 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Castro had 4.34 ERA in 6 seasons pitching in the pen ...So lets not pretend that he's horrible.

I will be more interested in the other component to the deal and think that its pretty much a wash at this point. If Smith ends up being a 5+ ERA 5th starter or long man I am sure how much value that will have on our next winning team. But perhaps your right!

I am not a big Castro fan and dont care if he's here or not. But, I'm not convinced that the trade is the big win that some of you think it is! And as I mentioned to SG, I could give a rats a-hole about the money saved this year or the $3million next year that will be added to the Peter Angelos Inheritance fund that will never be seen again.

I am a Castro fan, I think he can be a very effective ML reliever. The question isn’t about how good Castro will be, the question is when the Orioles will be good. You want as many controlled/controllable assets as possible at that time, which is what Smith will he and Castro will not.

[Roll Tide]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But 4.34 out of the pen isn't good either.

Its Average !

11 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That's around average.  Over the past five years reliever ERAs have gone from 3.93 to 4.46.  So every team uses like 15 relievers a year, the mid point is Castro.

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

Its Average !

 

Do you consider average good?  I consider average, average.  Good is better than average.

[Roll Tide]

10 minutes ago, survivedc said:

I am a Castro fan, I think he can be a very effective ML reliever. The question isn’t about how good Castro will be, the question is when the Orioles will be good. You want as many controlled/controllable assets as possible at that time, which is what Smith will he and Castro will not.

Cost controlled players like Mason Williams and Velazquez have very little value despite years of control...So it depends on the asset.

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you consider average good?  I consider average, average.  Good is better than average.

Castro was durable and basically average.   Since joining us in 2017, he ranks 4th among relievers in IP, with 239.2 IP.    That in and of itself has some value.    Among 102 relievers who threw at least 150 innings (note: he threw a lot more than that) he ranks 74th in ERA.    Not exactly spectacular, but again, he’s durable and not awful.   That’s a useful thing to have in a bullpen.   

[DrungoHazewood]

9 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Its Average !

 

Yes.  A typical team has seven or eight relievers and someone like Castro is the 4th guy out of the pen.  Do you really want to go to arb with your 6th inning guy?

Also, remember that average among the pool of all relievers includes any number of guys who aren't going to have careers.  Castro has thrown 278 innings since he came up in 2015.  If you look at everyone who's thrown 200+ innings as mostly a reliever in that timeframe, Castro is 108th of 129 pitchers in ERA+.  Since '15 he has basically the same results in the same number of innings as TJ McFarland or Matt Albers.