How does Elias maintain a Top 10 farm system without high draft choices

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

Agree totally, but there are exceptions. I wouldn’t give Manny 300M even though he’s still young and doing well

I’m not really for giving anyone that kind of money...Trout is an exception to that for me.  He’s a blank check player for me.

 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yea, something like that. 

All of this is contingent on what the next CBA looks like.  I'm skeptical they'll do anything too radical, but it might be much more friendly for non-superstar older players, as well as younger players.  We've reached the point where everyone agrees that signing 30-year-olds to 8/200 deals is ludicrous, except for the 33-year-olds in the middle of those deals hitting .232 with 11 homers.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the service time prior to free agency cut back a few years.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m not really for giving anyone that kind of money...Trout is an exception to that for me.  He’s a blank check player for me.

 

I'm hoping Bauer does the one year deal thing and pitches well.

 

That's the type of thing that could cause some collusion among front offices.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

The O's are not likely to deliver international players to the majors in the next three years is my guess.  So how does Elias keep a Top 10 farm system?

Dude, what's the obsession with having a top 10 system?  Maybe they're not likely to deliver international players in the next three years but so what?  

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Dude, what's the obsession with having a top 10 system?  Maybe they're not likely to deliver international players in the next three years but so what?  

Good point. At some point we can gut the system if it means delivering a couple of WS. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Good point. At some point we can gut the system if it means delivering a couple of WS. 

Yes but you should have enough depth to where even if you gut it, you have talent.

The Dodgers have been a good example of that.  
 

The key is that you keep your elite guys and trade your good to very good guys..like we just saw the Padres do, for example.

[DrungoHazewood]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the service time prior to free agency cut back a few years.

I've become convinced that the whole concept of tying service time to free agency needs to go away.  Everyone becomes a free agent at 27 or 28 or whatever.  Then you can promote players based on merit, instead of playing silly games.

The NHL does something like that.  But I won't count on MLB or the MLBPA being that creative.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I've become convinced that the whole concept of tying service time to free agency needs to go away.  Everyone becomes a free agent at 27 or 28 or whatever.  Then you can promote players based on merit, instead of playing silly games.

The NHL does something like that.  But I won't count on MLB or the MLBPA being that creative.

Juan Soto as an Arb 6 player....

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Juan Soto as an Arb 6 player....

Teams like the O's and Rays would face some hard choices.  You might trade stars at 25 or 26 because you can't or won't pay Arb 6 rates, which would probably be indistinguishable from free agent rates, just on one-year deals.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Teams like the O's and Rays would face some hard choices.  You might trade stars at 25 or 26 because you can't or won't pay Arb 6 rates, which would probably be indistinguishable from free agent rates, just on one-year deals.

I'll say under the current system you have arb 3 and 4 players who would receive more in arbitration than they would on the FA market, at least as a AAV.

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, Lucky_13 said:

Don't be afraid to trade guys you can likely replace even when you're winning like the Rays do. 

Something Duquette never did when he could have sold high on Jim Johnson, Bud Norris, even Zach Britton

Duquette may have been under instructions to keep the "window" propped open as long as possible at the expense of the future.   So when the farm system didn't have guys ready, he hung on to the vets to squeeze every last ounce out of them keeping that window open.   Remember Angelos' quote about how he didn't believe in rebuilding because the fans who bought tickets deserved to see a team trying to win.

And he kept it open until the end of August 2017, when we were only a few games out of a playoff spot.   And one bad September wasn't enough to convince them there wasn't hope in 2018.

Not only did management want that, but if Duquette could have reached the playoffs four out of 6 years with a team that had 14 consecutive losing seasons, he might have felt that would look good on his resume.  Instead the 2018 collapse to the worst record of any team in most of our lifetimes laid bare the consequences of his strategy.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Duquette may have been under instructions to keep the "window" propped open as long as possible at the expense of the future.   So when the farm system didn't have guys ready, he hung on to the vets to squeeze every last ounce out of them keeping that window open.   Remember Angelos' quote about how he didn't believe in rebuilding because the fans who bought tickets deserved to see a team trying to win.

And he kept it open until the end of August 2017, when we were only a few games out of a playoff spot.   And one bad September wasn't enough to convince them there wasn't hope in 2018.

Not only did management want that, but if Duquette could have reached the playoffs four out of 6 years with a team that had 14 consecutive losing seasons, he might have felt that would look good on his resume.  Instead the 2018 collapse to the worst record of any team in most of our lifetimes laid bare the consequences of his strategy.

I think Dan was 100% on board with going for a ring every year he was here.  I think he wanted to win very badly after Boston.

[LookinUp]

First, be good at drafting and developing talent. Our system has Rodriguez (11th overall), Hall (21st overall) and Mountcastle (36th). Baumann was a 3rd rounder. Akin was 54th overall. Hays was a 3rd rounder. You could argue this org has done a nice job lately. It would be nice to hit on a Jake Arrieta or two as well.

Second, acquire good talent in trades. We're hopeful on Kremer and Diaz. Others are farther away, but if we're selling, hopefully we find the right guys in return.

Third, acquire international talent. Several of the best players in the game were't even part of the draft. We're finally in that game. Who knows, maybe we already have a difference maker in this org who is just very young and under the radar. This is a stated goal of Elias, so hopefully he can do it.

Fourth, if we do contend, really try not to give up Hader, Davies and Rodriguez types unless you get true impact back. Knowing what you have in-house helps. When the time comes, I hope that Elias will be patient for a year or two and not blow his load during our first legit playoff run. It's very possible that promoting our own guys will work out much better than trading for other guys in the long run if we're as good at this drafting and developing guys as we hope.

 

 

[Spy Fox]

49 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

All of this is contingent on what the next CBA looks like.  I'm skeptical they'll do anything too radical, but it might be much more friendly for non-superstar older players, as well as younger players.  We've reached the point where everyone agrees that signing 30-year-olds to 8/200 deals is ludicrous, except for the 33-year-olds in the middle of those deals hitting .232 with 11 homers.

What do the 34-year-olds hitting .122 with 0 HRs think? Bonus points if they have an OPS+ of -2.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the service time prior to free agency cut back a few years.

I think they should make itEight years from the time you’re signed, 9 years for HS kids, which would eliminate any service time BS.