The second guessing Hyde thread.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

First of all, Hyde has been doing it all season.

secondly, even in the best case scenario, he was only going to get one or two additional outs before going to the bullpen anyway.

He certainly didn’t know that for sure.   Lopez went 5.2 just two starts ago.   That’s five more outs.   Now, I’m not saying that was likely, given Lopez’s track record.   But it wasn’t out of the question, either.  He’d only thrown 66 pitches to that point.

I probably would have pulled him, but I don’t pretend the decision was easy.    You don’t just look at the one game, you look at the whole situation.  The O’s are 13th/15 in innings pitched by their starters, at 4.70 per game.   That’s very tough on a bullpen and you have to push the starters at times to minimize the cumulative effect of pulling them early every game.

Still, to me, this was not the game to do that.   We only play in NL parks a handful of times per year, so there’s only a few times where the decision to pull a pitcher rests on the offensive situation at the time the pitcher comes up.   Bases loaded, two out, tie game is about as leveraged as it gets.   Knowing that Lopez tends to struggle after 4 innings, that was a good time for a pinch hitter.

 

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

He certainly didn’t know that for sure.   Lopez went 5.2 just two starts ago.   That’s five more outs.   Now, I’m not saying that was likely, given Lopez’s track record.   But it wasn’t out of the question, either.  He’d only thrown 66 pitches to that point.

I probably would have pulled him, but I don’t pretend the decision was easy.    You don’t just look at the one game, you look at the whole situation.  The O’s are 13th/15 in innings pitched by their starters, at 4.70 per game.   That’s very tough on a bullpen and you have to push the starters at times to minimize the cumulative effect of pulling them early every game.

Still, to me, this was not the game to do that.   We only play in NL parks a handful of times per year, so there’s only a few times where the decision to pull a pitcher rests on the offensive situation at the time the pitcher comes up.   Bases loaded, two out, tie game is about as leveraged as it gets.   Knowing that Lopez tends to struggle after 4 innings, that was a good time for a pinch hitter.

 

He didn’t know it “for sure” Perhaps, but he certainly knew it “for probably.” He has to consider the likelihood, and the likelihood was that Lopez was going to be bad. The reason for that is because all season he has generally fallen apart out about that point.
I posted in the game thread that Lopez should come out after four. I also said that at the time he’d only thrown about 69 pitches So I understood the hesitation, but I would’ve pulled him after four, and I certainly would have pinch-hit for him. I understand where you’re coming from, but It was an inexcusable decision, and has nothing to do with the fact of the pen has been bad. 
Plus, as I have said frequently, when you have a struggling bullpen it’s best to let your reliever start with a clean inning.

Edit: It would’ve been OK to let him start the fifth, but with a reliever warmed and ready to replace him at the first sign of trouble, but that ignores the pinch-hit issue.

Best to just let someone else start the inning.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Philip

[Philip]

Today’s game against the nationals has not started yet, but I am second guessing the decision to sit Hays in favor of Mountcastle in left field.

Hays is hitting .244 and offers splendid defense. His OPS is 200 points higher than Mountcastle’s.

Mountcastle is heading .214 and offers awful Defense, he’s not even listed as an outfielder on the roster anymore.

Roch Did not list any reasoning for the move, quite possibly because there isn’t one.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

45 minutes ago, Philip said:

Today’s game against the nationals has not started yet, but I am second guessing the decision to sit Hays in favor of Mountcastle in left field.

Hays is hitting .244 and offers splendid defense. His OPS is 200 points higher than Mountcastle’s.

Mountcastle is heading .214 and offers awful Defense, he’s not even listed as an outfielder on the roster anymore.

Roch Did not list any reasoning for the move, quite possibly because there isn’t one.

That’s why.

[Philip]

25 minutes ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

That’s why.

I’m glad he did it, but you are smoking something special if you think that Hyde Sat down before the game and said to himself, “Mountcastle is going to hit a homerun in his first at bat, therefore I will sit Hays in favor of him today.”

[Legend_Of_Joey]

33 minutes ago, Philip said:

I’m glad he did it, but you are smoking something special if you think that Hyde Sat down before the game and said to himself, “Mountcastle is going to hit a homerun in his first at bat, therefore I will sit Hays in favor of him today.”

Next time I’ll use Can of Corns “Sarcasm Green” font.

[UMDTerrapins]

Just got home from the game. At the end of the 3rd, Zim had thrown 82 pitches and not been effective. He bats 2nd in the top of the 4th. Plutko has been warming up and is clearly coming in to pitch the 4th. You don’t pinch hit for Zim in that situation? Hays and Sisco did not end up playing today.

[spiritof66]

37 minutes ago, UMDTerrapins said:

Just got home from the game. At the end of the 3rd, Zim had thrown 82 pitches and not been effective. He bats 2nd in the top of the 4th. Plutko has been warming up and is clearly coming in to pitch the 4th. You don’t pinch hit for Zim in that situation? Hays and Sisco did not end up playing today.

Jeez, just like the second-guessing when Buck decided to hold Britton for when he really needed him. Our manager makes a move or three so bad that you wonder whether he really understands what's going on or has any interest in winning the game, and you guys are all over him!

[Robh21223]

32 minutes ago, UMDTerrapins said:

Just got home from the game. At the end of the 3rd, Zim had thrown 82 pitches and not been effective. He bats 2nd in the top of the 4th. Plutko has been warming up and is clearly coming in to pitch the 4th. You don’t pinch hit for Zim in that situation? Hays and Sisco did not end up playing today.

 

10 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

Jeez, just like the second-guessing when Buck decided to hold Britton for when he really needed him. Our manager makes a move or three so bad that you wonder whether he really understands what's going on or has any interest in winning the game, and you guys are all over him!

He's not wrong.

[Philip]

45 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

Jeez, just like the second-guessing when Buck decided to hold Britton for when he really needed him. Our manager makes a move or three so bad that you wonder whether he really understands what's going on or has any interest in winning the game, and you guys are all over him!

Ummmmm....more than three...unless you’re talking about “per game.”

[SteveA]

This thread hasn't gotten much use this year because we aren't "trying" to win and we all know Hyde has not been given much talent to work with.

But I have to question bringing in Anderson in the 8th last night after we cut it to a 2 run game.  

Anderson is clearly the last man in the pen right now.  I do realize with Akin going today Hyde had to plan on keeping some guys fresh for today, such as Plutko.   And I certainly wouldn't have used any of the guys who pitched the night before, who was kind of our A team.

But Dillon Tate had not pitched since Sunday.  I think he would have been a much better choice than Anderson once we made it close.  Give us a fighting chance going into the 9th.

And using Tate for one inning last night would probably not make him unavailable today.  And we have an off day tomorrow.

 

[bobmc]

Look!  As long as you have a competitive game for your JP Bobblehead and beer guzzling afternoon/evening, I'm happy!  I had to say it!  

[Il BuonO]

25 minutes ago, SteveA said:

This thread hasn't gotten much use this year because we aren't "trying" to win and we all know Hyde has not been given much talent to work with.

But I have to question bringing in Anderson in the 8th last night after we cut it to a 2 run game.  

Anderson is clearly the last man in the pen right now.  I do realize with Akin going today Hyde had to plan on keeping some guys fresh for today, such as Plutko.   And I certainly wouldn't have used any of the guys who pitched the night before, who was kind of our A team.

But Dillon Tate had not pitched since Sunday.  I think he would have been a much better choice than Anderson once we made it close.  Give us a fighting chance going into the 9th.

And using Tate for one inning last night would probably not make him unavailable today.  And we have an off day tomorrow.

 

 

12 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

A two run game seems a little too close for Shaun Anderson.

....from the GT.

Almost like it was calculated, no?

[SteveA]

16 minutes ago, bobmc said:

Look!  As long as you have a competitive game for your JP Bobblehead and beer guzzling afternoon/evening, I'm happy!  I had to say it!  

Matt Harvey vs Max Scherzer.  Someone just waking up from a 7 year coma would think that was the best pitching matchup of the year 

[SteveA]

2 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

 

....from the GT.

Almost like it was calculated, no?

Likely he had already planned on Anderson for the 8th when we were down 5-1 and had little chance to win.   If we hadn't scored, it's a much lower leverage situation and I'd be fine with Anderson.   Our chances of scoring 4 in the 9th were miniscule.

But he should have adjusted those chances once we picked up a couple runs (and we did so with pleny of time left in the top of the 8th to get someone else ready).

Were we likely to score even 2 in the 9th?   No.   But a lot more likely than 4.   A bloop and a blast isn't THAT much to ask for.