Santander in August

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

What clear indication have you seen of ownership meddling since Mike Elias was signed? I have not seen any. I always assume there is some, behind the scenes, but there has not been any moment where I have seen a signature Angelos impediment to team functionality. This is just a dark time in Orioles’ history. But it is always darkest before the dawn. 

No hard evidence but could explain why Mancini was not traded in July. 

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

No hard evidence but could explain why Mancini was not traded in July. 

Neither was anyone else.  The circumstantial evidence is not strong. 

[Aristotelian]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Neither was anyone else.  The circumstantial evidence is not strong. 

Mancini made way more sense to trade than anyone else. Due for the biggest raise. Certainly made as much or more sense to trade in July as in this offseason. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Mancini made way more sense to trade than anyone else. Due for the biggest raise. Certainly made as much or more sense to trade in July as in this offseason. 

He didn’t make sense to trade if you weren’t getting any real offers for him.

[Aristotelian]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He didn’t make sense to trade if you weren’t getting any real offers for him.

And why would that change this offseason? 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

And why would that change this offseason? 

It may not.  Or teams wanted to see him complete a season after what he went through before trading for him.

Or maybe the Os are comfortable with his salary and want him back.

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

And why would that change this offseason? 

The new CBA could bring back the DH. 

[Ripken]

I said in the Martin thread that I just don't see anything in him to warrant being in the majors.  I think he's a horrible hitter.  I made clear that it was just my opinion and people should think whatever they want.  The point was that sometimes we just really like/don't a player because or what we see, all stats aside.  That said, I love Santander.  I think the talent is real.  Health is the question, and it's a big one, but if that kid ever stayed healthy I think he's a potential All Star.  I know many disagree.  That's cool.  I would very much keep him... outside of the standard reply that anyone is tradeable for the right return.

We keep talking about 4th OF types and mentioning guys that aren't very good.  I want more.  I think Hays makes a great 4th OF.  He does everything pretty well but maybe not quite good enough to play every day.  He can play CF, pinch hit, pinch run, etc.  An OF of Cowser, Mullins, Santander with Hays working in could be very good offensively and defensively.  And, yes, there are a lot more OFs coming.  If we really like some prospects after the group above than trades will happen.

As for Trey... we all love him.  He's an awesome person, a good hitter, and a decent 1B.  That said, I really don't see the trade value you all see.  His numbers aren't that great and, sure, he could be wearing out after a year of treatments, it's hard to drive in runs when the Orioles suck, and so on.  Again, amazing story, but nobody is going to offer up that much for him.  He's not as valuable as some think he is.

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Mancini made way more sense to trade than anyone else. Due for the biggest raise. Certainly made as much or more sense to trade in July as in this offseason. 

Relievers are the hot commodity as well.   The fact that Fry did not get dealt says just as much as Mancini.    We can both guess but my guess is that they didn't want to trade just to trade.   They weren't happy with the offers.   I admit, they may have been looking for an overpay on Mancini because of a potential PR hit trading a cancer survivor in the middle of a comeback player of the year season.   I don't think that will hinder them in the offseason.

[foxfield]

9 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Mancini made way more sense to trade than anyone else. Due for the biggest raise. Certainly made as much or more sense to trade in July as in this offseason. 

 

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He didn’t make sense to trade if you weren’t getting any real offers for him.

Both of these statements can be correct...I think they are.  It does seem that the Orioles were allowing Mancini to be shopped, but rumors say they want a high price.  

If they do not intend to extend him, the price will drop enough to move him.  It would be easy to over value Trey.  IMHO

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, waroriole said:

I just don’t think they have the guts to trade Mancini. Even if it’s clearly the right move. 

You mean you are saying that Elias and company are afraid of bad PR / fan reaction that it effects their moves???

The evidence doesn't seem to support that.  If it were true, they would have fielded a better team this year.   They are getting plenty of bad PR and fan reaction to the product on the field.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Ripken said:

I said in the Martin thread that I just don't see anything in him to warrant being in the majors.  I think he's a horrible hitter.  I made clear that it was just my opinion and people should think whatever they want.  The point was that sometimes we just really like/don't a player because or what we see, all stats aside.  That said, I love Santander.  I think the talent is real.  Health is the question, and it's a big one, but if that kid ever stayed healthy I think he's a potential All Star.  I know many disagree.  That's cool.  I would very much keep him... outside of the standard reply that anyone is tradeable for the right return.

We keep talking about 4th OF types and mentioning guys that aren't very good.  I want more.  I think Hays makes a great 4th OF.  He does everything pretty well but maybe not quite good enough to play every day.  He can play CF, pinch hit, pinch run, etc.  An OF of Cowser, Mullins, Santander with Hays working in could be very good offensively and defensively.  And, yes, there are a lot more OFs coming.  If we really like some prospects after the group above than trades will happen.

As for Trey... we all love him.  He's an awesome person, a good hitter, and a decent 1B.  That said, I really don't see the trade value you all see.  His numbers aren't that great and, sure, he could be wearing out after a year of treatments, it's hard to drive in runs when the Orioles suck, and so on.  Again, amazing story, but nobody is going to offer up that much for him.  He's not as valuable as some think he is.

The guy from Tampa Bay who got released after a 30 homerun season?   You're right.  Mancini doesn't have much trade value but we might be able to get some lower level fliers for him.   I'm not expecting a #3 starter for him.

[glenn__davis]

I've been pretty bearish on Santander for most of his career, but he's making a believer of me.  I truly think he's been banged up most of the year and hopefully he's getting healthy now.  Now we just need to get him and Mullins hitting at the same time!

[Tony-OH]

Santander has the talent to be a solid everyday major league outfielder on an upper Division team IF he can stay healthy. the problem is he just can't stay healthy for an entire year and he's proven he doesn't hit well when not at or near 100%. 

He'll definitely get tendered this offseason though.

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

And why would that change this offseason? 

The way David Samson, former Marlins executive explains it is:

At the trade deadline contending teams are limited in who they will trade because they don't want to give up any player(s) that might help them win in the current season.

In the off season all teams are constructing their teams for the next season.  They can consider trading many more players because they have the time to acquire other player(s) to fill open spots on the roster.   (This is all paraphrased from one of his podcasts.)

Samson says the best time to trade pitchers is the deadline and the best time to trade position players in the off season.