Kelvin Gutierrez’s defense

[Jammer7]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I am coming around to this. Even with an IF signing we should be able carry Gutierrez, Mateo, and Urias. That doesn't mean they all play 162 games but they should get enough AB's to continue to be evaluated. 

Jones and Martin have shown nothing. If Mancini is traded, his spot could go to a guy like Harrison who could DH but also play some 3B if one of the infielders isn't working out. As many holes as we have we can't drop any guys that have potential to provide more than replacement value at low cost. Worst case scenario they are assets to be traded. 

Yes. Mateo and Gutierrez may never be star quality regulars, but they can still be of value to a winning team. They both could be the late bloomer type of player that the Orioles were hoping to land with all of those waiver claims. Urias may be less upside with a higher floor, but he has shown to be a solid unspectacular producer.

[Frobby]

Over the last 25 games of the season, Gutierrez hit .305/.360/.451.   

As a minor leaguer, Gutierrez’s line was .282/.345/.397.    If you look at his stats at the various levels, he was quite consistent: solid BA and OBP, a bit light on SLG.    

I think there’s a decent chance he could be close to that guy in the majors.   He’s only had 386 PA as a major leaguer.   He wasn’t very good for the first 300 or so.   The last 89 have been very good.   I don’t believe the last 90 are the “real” Gutierrez, but I do think there may be more bat than his overall major league numbers suggest.   

 

[wildcard]

Though I think Gutierrez may stay on the 40 man roster this off season, he does not  project as a starter next season.   More like a defensive backup who plays late in games and who plays when someone is injured or needs rest.   That will not get him consistent at bats and therefore I can't project his offense to reach peak performance.

[bobmc]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

Though I think Gutierrez may stay on the 40 man roster this off season, he does not  project as a starter next season.   More like a defensive backup who plays late in games and who plays when someone is injured or needs rest.   That will not get him consistent at bats and therefore I can't project his offense to reach peak performance.

So perhaps a destitute man's Chris Taylor?  

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

Though I think Gutierrez may stay on the 40 man roster this off season, he does not  project as a starter next season.   More like a defensive backup who plays late in games and who plays when someone is injured or needs rest.   That will not get him consistent at bats and therefore I can't project his offense to reach peak performance.

The problem with projected niche bench guys is with as large a pitching staff as teams carry they don't have a lot of bench spots available.

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The problem with projected niche bench guys is with as large a pitching staff as teams carry they don't have a lot of bench spots available.

Yeah, I’m not sure Gutierrez is versatile enough to be on the bench.  90% of his minor league experience is at 3B.   He’s played 65 games at SS, but mostly way back in the DSL and GCL.   So I think either he wins the 3B job or you park him at Norfolk.   

[sportsfan8703]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

Over the last 25 games of the season, Gutierrez hit .305/.360/.451.   

As a minor leaguer, Gutierrez’s line was .282/.345/.397.    If you look at his stats at the various levels, he was quite consistent: solid BA and OBP, a bit light on SLG.    

I think there’s a decent chance he could be close to that guy in the majors.   He’s only had 386 PA as a major leaguer.   He wasn’t very good for the first 300 or so.   The last 89 have been very good.   I don’t believe the last 90 are the “real” Gutierrez, but I do think there may be more bat than his overall major league numbers suggest.   

 

I think he’s our 3B going into next season. We literally have no other options. I expect an IF of,

2B - Urias (Lock)

3B - Guiterrez

SS - FA(Iglesias or Galvis)

UTIL/IF/OF - Mateo

IF - Waiver wire claim 

Iglesias or Galvis, can be brought in to help stabilize the defense for the pitching staff. They can also mentor the young IF. Also, Mateo could be an everyday option at SS, but he has to prove himself and win that job. 

[wildcard]

45 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I think he’s our 3B going into next season. We literally have no other options. I expect an IF of,

2B - Urias (Lock)

3B - Guiterrez

SS - FA(Iglesias or Galvis)

UTIL/IF/OF - Mateo

IF - Waiver wire claim 

Iglesias or Galvis, can be brought in to help stabilize the defense for the pitching staff. They can also mentor the young IF. Also, Mateo could be an everyday option at SS, but he has to prove himself and win that job. 

I don't think Urias is a lock to be the everyday 2B.   I think they are going to find Urias and Mateo regular at bats. Maybe some of those come for 3B.

I think you are right that Mateo has to earn the everyday SS job.   

[Aristotelian]

39 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't think Urias is a lock to be the everyday 2B.   I think they are going to find Urias and Mateo regular at bats. Maybe some of those come for 3B.

I think you are right that Mateo has to earn the everyday SS job.   

Urias is the best of the three, or at least the most proven. Dude has great AB's every time up and put up 2.0 WAR in only 260 AB's and higher OBP than Mullins (albeit by .001). He is a total nugget and should play every day. While he can play other positions I don't see why we don't give him 2B to start the year. He deserves it. 

What we do with Mateo and Gutierrez depends on what kind of free agents we bring in. With his versatility and athleticism seems like Mateo could find a role even with a FA SS, whereas Gutierrez is probably out of a job if we get a FA 3B. 

It is tempting to invest all available dollars in pitching and roll with the guys we have although we should have a plan B and C. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

48 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Urias is the best of the three, or at least the most proven. Dude has great AB's every time up and put up 2.0 WAR in only 260 AB's and higher OBP than Mullins (albeit by .001). He is a total nugget and should play every day. While he can play other positions I don't see why we don't give him 2B to start the year. He deserves it. 

What we do with Mateo and Gutierrez depends on what kind of free agents we bring in. With his versatility and athleticism seems like Mateo could find a role even with a FA SS, whereas Gutierrez is probably out of a job if we get a FA 3B. 

It is tempting to invest all available dollars in pitching and roll with the guys we have although we should have a plan B and C. 

I would be surprised if Urias isn't going to be an everyday player starting out in 2022. He played the best out of any of the 2B/3B/SS on this year's roster. Yes he's 27 years old, but it's the first real chance Urias got in MLB and he held his own. 

Maybe Urias only sticks around a couple years before getting replaced, but he's earned the right to be an everyday player (for now). 

[mlrhode]

Saw this update from the Dominican winter league courtesy of the ATHLETIC: 

3B Kelvin Gutiérrez
Age: 27
Stats: 18 G, .417/.493/.567, 3 2B, 0 3B, 2 HR, 10 BB, 11 K

One of the leading batters in the league, Gutiérrez isn’t playing now because of a lower-body injury that could possibly prevent him from rejoining his Gigantes del Cibao on the field. But he made a huge impact in his 18 games, responsible for driving in 12 runs and scoring 15. His 1.060 OPS ranks second among players with at least 30 at-bats — and he hasn’t played since Nov. 24. Gutiérrez, a 27-year-old who went to the Orioles after the Royals designated him for assignment in late June, has yet to gain a foothold in the major leagues. Whether he stays with Baltimore as an infield depth player will depend on if the front office bolsters its infield. As things stand, he has a spot based on his plus-rated defense.

[scOtt]

On 10/7/2021 at 8:36 AM, sportsfan8703 said:

I think he’s our 3B going into next season. We literally have no other options. I expect an IF of,

2B - Urias (Lock)

3B - Guiterrez

SS - FA(Iglesias or Galvis)

UTIL/IF/OF - Mateo

IF - Waiver wire claim 

Iglesias or Galvis, can be brought in to help stabilize the defense for the pitching staff. They can also mentor the young IF. Also, Mateo could be an everyday option at SS, but he has to prove himself and win that job. 

This. For the moment at least. And the moment is of course on hold. M.a.y.b.e.... Urias.

[interloper]

35 minutes ago, scOtt said:

This. For the moment at least. And the moment is of course on hold. M.a.y.b.e.... Urias.

Well there's Odor, who played a little 3B last year and certainly has good overall defensive skills to maybe make it more of a full-time transition. But it's kind of the same problem as Gutierrez - he's gotta show he can hit. 

But right now, I kind of like Odor as the starting 3B. Or at least challenging Gutierrez for the position. 

Re: SS, I think they go Mateo/Urias. But they need another depth piece to challenge in ST (Fox would have been a fit here, alas). 

[wildcard]

I still like Josh Harrison at 3B.   Odor is alright to bring to ST but I think he gets outplayed if Harrison is there also.

Urias will out hit Odor at 2B and probably be as good defensively.  Mateo has more range and is more experienced at SS.  Harrison will out hit Odor at 3B and is better defensively.   I like Gutierrez as a back up  3B that could play when Harrison is playing 2B. Urias is the backup SS.

Right now I am thinking that Odor has too much swing and miss in his game to beat out any of these guys.   His best chance of making the team is if someone gets hurt before OD.

What the O's need out of this group is to play well for one season until Westburg and Henderson are ready.

 

[interloper]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I still like Josh Harrison at 3B.   Odor is alright to bring to ST but I think he gets outplayed if Harrison is there also.

Urias will out hit Odor at 2B and probably be as good defensively.  Mateo has more range and is more experienced at SS.  Harrison will out hit Odor at 3B and is better defensively.   I like Gutierrez as a back up  3B that could play when Harrison is playing 2B. Urias is the backup SS.

Right now I am thinking that Odor has too much swing and miss in his game to beat out any of these guys.   His best chance of making the team is if someone gets hurt before OD.

What the O's need out of this group is to play well for one season until Westburg and Henderson are ready.

 

Harrison on a 1 year deal, maybe with an option, would definitely be alright with me. He at least gets on base a little.