MLB Lockout Thread

[Can_of_corn]

No rush guys, take your time.

 

I'm sure all your Union members not currently under contract will be fine.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Interesting video on the current lockout.

 

[Just Regular]

8 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

No rush guys, take your time.

 

I'm sure all your Union members not currently under contract will be fine.

Maybe it is all just a conspiracy by the veteran players to limit Spring Training to about 3 weeks.

The old tropes like Spring Training only has to be 6 weeks for starting pitchers (and Harold Baines can roll out of bed and hit), the Clubs don't even let Max Scherzer throw that long anymore.   If most Opening Day starters are going to be hooked at 75 pitches anyway, it probably could be 3 weeks for everybody.

Except for those darned leases calling for 30-ish games, and wanting people to come to warm places and buy merch while the players don't get paid.   Jake Fox is really going to battle for a job to keep it fun!

[Frobby]

Sounds like the players dropped some demands and that led to some progress today, with another session scheduled for tomorrow.   That’s a small ray of hope, anyway.  
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33140500/mlb-players-association-plan-meet-again-tuesday-sides-make-progress-sources-say

[forphase1]

If true, this is some good news, at least in regards to getting the season started.  Maybe not good news for those folks that want to see younger players brought up quicker.

[Redskins Rick]

14 hours ago, forphase1 said:

If true, this is some good news, at least in regards to getting the season started.  Maybe not good news for those folks that want to see younger players brought up quicker.

Sorry, Im just not feeling that this will be resolved in time for a full season.

Quote

 

Spring training for the Orioles is scheduled to begin in just over three weeks, February 15^th, in Sarasota, Florida, and an on-time start isn’t looking promising. Since Major League Baseball locked out its players on December 2^nd, the sides have met once by Zoom this month when the owners made a new proposal. The players will counter it on Monday at an in-person meeting in New York.

There’s still so much offseason business left to conduct that unless there’s a Collective Bargaining Agreement within the next two weeks, spring training’s start will be delayed.

Practically, there probably isn’t a need for six weeks of spring training and 32 Grapefruit League games, including three split-squad games.

https://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2022/01/24/baseballs-labor-dispute-badly-hurting-games-image/

 

[jarman86]

On 1/21/2022 at 5:36 PM, Just Regular said:

Except for those darned leases calling for 30-ish games, and wanting people to come to warm places and buy merch while the players don't get paid.

With being fed up with the weather up here right now, I see nothing wrong with this lol. Always used ST as excuse for warm weather since I was in 3rd grade.

[jarman86]

41 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Sorry, Im just not feeling that this will be resolved in time for a full season.

 

TBH, I'm feeling better with the MLBPA making concessions yesterday and the two sides meeting again today....having said that, I still have little faith in these two sides coming to a deal given past history and that the owners could completely ruin everything today in a counter, but I feel better this week than I did a week or two ago. 

[Frobby]

54 minutes ago, jarman86 said:

TBH, I'm feeling better with the MLBPA making concessions yesterday and the two sides meeting again today....having said that, I still have little faith in these two sides coming to a deal given past history and that the owners could completely ruin everything today in a counter, but I feel better this week than I did a week or two ago. 

Yeah, it’s better than nothing, but the parties are still miles apart.   

[Tony-OH]

I guess the fact that they are meeting and conceding some issues is good for the possibility of a compromise being reached, but I hate the fact that the players are solely focused on making more money for their constituents. that don't care about fairness or competitiveness, just making more money for themselves.

No one is looking out for what's good for baseball or the fans.

[waroriole]

 

[Sports Guy]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33145517/mlb-open-pre-arbitration-bonus-pool-eligible-players-labor-talks-continue-sources-say
 

Don’t feel that this is too encouraging.

[Frobby]

31 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33145517/mlb-open-pre-arbitration-bonus-pool-eligible-players-labor-talks-continue-sources-say
 

Don’t feel that this is too encouraging.

Just a gut feeling, but I think the players will end up caving on a lot of major issues.   I don’t think their leadership is that strong.  

[DrungoHazewood]

2 hours ago, waroriole said:

 

Pre-arb bonus pool for the top 30 based on fWAR, I'm assuming?  That's what the owners proposed in some earlier test idea they floated.  Really would hate to be in that 25-35 range.  Just to get kind of an idea of what this will look like I ran a list of the top WAR totals for non-pitchers in 2021 for everyone 26 or younger.  The 25th is Luis Robert at 3.6, 35th is Austin Hayes at 3.1.  So a tenth of a win or less will separate those getting a bonus from those not getting one. 

I'm a WAR advocate, but in no way would I definitively state that a glove-first shortstop with 3.1 WAR is better than a pitcher with 3.0.  Fangraphs and bb-ref WAR for pitchers sometimes varies by a win or more because of the philosophical underpinnings of each model (which is a feature, not a bug).  If anyone tells you that a half a win difference between any two players is definitive you should be very skeptical.  This model is using that kind of difference to hand out potentially tens of $millions.

Wander Franco was a 3.5 win player in just 70 games because the Rays didn't want to start his clock, so JP Crawford and his 3.8 WAR in 160 games get more of a bonus.

And what happens when Statcast or BIS or someone retroactively gets better data and in 2025 the formerly 32nd-ranked player by fWAR is now 27th?

What happens when your manager uses you in relief and it would take an epic season to break into the top 30 in 60 innings, while your similarly-talented teammate starts and breaks into the top 30 and gets a bonus?

What if you're in 32nd place on September 22nd and your team decides your slightly sore hammy is a good reason to shut you down for the year?

Just a bad idea to tie money to specific metrics.  There's a reason they won't let contract say something like "$100k bonus for 100 RBI".

[Frobby]

I agree with you, Drungo.  Well said.   But what else can you do if you have a bonus pool that’s supposed to be allocated by performance?   I guess they could do what many law firms do and just have some committee use their discretion.   That would be hilarious.