Long piece on Peter Angelos’ history

[Frobby]

I stumbled on this today, a long article from Defector.com that gets into a lot of Peter Angelos history both as a lawyer and as team owner.   A lot of it I knew, but it’s a good recap and has a few details I didn’t know.  
 

https://defector.com/peter-angelos-couldnt-stay-a-hero-forever/

[Pickles]

Good read, if not particularly informative for long-time followers of Angelos and the Orioles.

He's a complicated man with a complicated legacy.

[Tony-OH]

Really good detailed piece though they got one thing wrong. From everything I heard, it was Frank Wren that made the call to leave left Cal Ripken behind, not Johnson. Supposedly the ire of Ripken led to Wren's departure after just one year.

Overall though, it's an interesting story of a many who became a local "hero" for keeping the team in Baltimore but yet who became a villain because he couldn't get his ego out of his own way.

It's not surprising how much money he gave for political influence only to turn around and screw over the "worker" at every chance he got. Whether it was low balling players or reneging on agreement to pay his clean up workers a "living wage," a deal that would have cost him "an extra $880 per game, or $71,280 for an entire season," it is very clear the man was about himself. 

Heck, the fact that he made hundreds of millions of dollars off asbestos victims and then made sure to do the same for cigarette smokers truly makes him a profitable "ambulance chaser". I don't think for a second he did it because he cared about these people, but rather it he's like the Lonestar character in Space Balls - "We're not doing it for the money, we're doing it for a shitload of money!"

I'll be honest, I love the Orioles, but whether they play in Baltimore, Nashville, or a safer Baltimore area suburb really doesn't matter much to me anymore. I'm just hoping to see a team that is competitive year in and year out with an owner that provides first class TV/radio broadcasts, and the money to sustain a payroll that can compete with the Yankees and Red Sox year in an year out. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Really good detailed piece though they got one thing wrong. From everything I heard, it was Frank Wren that made the call to leave left Cal Ripken behind, not Johnson. Supposedly the ire of Ripken led to Wren's departure after just one year.

Overall though, it's an interesting story of a many who became a local "hero" for keeping the team in Baltimore but yet who became a villain because he couldn't get his ego out of his own way.

It's not surprising how much money he gave for political influence only to turn around and screw over the "worker" at every chance he got. Whether it was low balling players or reneging on agreement to pay his clean up workers a "living wage," a deal that would have cost him "an extra $880 per game, or $71,280 for an entire season," it is very clear the man was about himself. 

Heck, the fact that he made hundreds of millions of dollars off asbestos victims and then made sure to do the same for cigarette smokers truly makes him a profitable "ambulance chaser". I don't think for a second he did it because he cared about these people, but rather it he's like the Lonestar character in Space Balls - "We're not doing it for the money, we're doing it for a shitload of money!"

I'll be honest, I love the Orioles, but whether they play in Baltimore, Nashville, or a safer Baltimore area suburb really doesn't matter much to me anymore. I'm just hoping to see a team that is competitive year in and year out with an owner that provides first class TV/radio broadcasts, and the money to sustain a payroll that can compete with the Yankees and Red Sox year in an year out. 

That is correct it was pinned on Wren making the decision to take off without Cal. It’s possible that Wren was made the scapegoat on this given his tumultuous short tenure with the Orioles.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1999-10-08-9910080027-story.html

To make a long story short, Ripken got caught in traffic and was running late for the team's 8 a.m. flight. He called traveling secretary Phil Itzoe to assure him that he would be arriving within five to 10 minutes. Itzoe then informed Wren, who ordered the plane to take off on schedule, without Ripken.

At least that's the club version.

 

[Chuck A]

5 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

That is correct it was pinned on Wren making the decision to take off without Cal. It’s possible that Wren was made the scapegoat on this given his tumultuous short tenure with the Orioles.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1999-10-08-9910080027-story.html

To make a long story short, Ripken got caught in traffic and was running late for the team's 8 a.m. flight. He called traveling secretary Phil Itzoe to assure him that he would be arriving within five to 10 minutes. Itzoe then informed Wren, who ordered the plane to take off on schedule, without Ripken.

At least that's the club version.

 

In all fairness, Cal single-handedly (due to the streak) put butts in seats and captivated the fans, can say brought in new fans, on the heels of a strike that put a bad black eye on baseball.  I think you hold the flight another 10 minutes for him.  I spoke to Cal a few times over the years and he always seemed a humble man, he had my respect from the first time.  Ultimate team first individual. 

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Really good detailed piece though they got one thing wrong. From everything I heard, it was Frank Wren that made the call to leave left Cal Ripken behind, not Johnson. Supposedly the ire of Ripken led to Wren's departure after just one year.

Overall though, it's an interesting story of a many who became a local "hero" for keeping the team in Baltimore but yet who became a villain because he couldn't get his ego out of his own way.

It's not surprising how much money he gave for political influence only to turn around and screw over the "worker" at every chance he got. Whether it was low balling players or reneging on agreement to pay his clean up workers a "living wage," a deal that would have cost him "an extra $880 per game, or $71,280 for an entire season," it is very clear the man was about himself. 

Heck, the fact that he made hundreds of millions of dollars off asbestos victims and then made sure to do the same for cigarette smokers truly makes him a profitable "ambulance chaser". I don't think for a second he did it because he cared about these people, but rather it he's like the Lonestar character in Space Balls - "We're not doing it for the money, we're doing it for a shitload of money!"

I'll be honest, I love the Orioles, but whether they play in Baltimore, Nashville, or a safer Baltimore area suburb really doesn't matter much to me anymore. I'm just hoping to see a team that is competitive year in and year out with an owner that provides first class TV/radio broadcasts, and the money to sustain a payroll that can compete with the Yankees and Red Sox year in an year out. 

Are you still a Colts fan after they moved to Indy?

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

10 minutes ago, Chuck A said:

In all fairness, Cal single-handedly (due to the streak) put butts in seats and captivated the fans, can say brought in new fans, on the heels of a strike that put a bad black eye on baseball.  I think you hold the flight another 10 minutes for him.  I spoke to Cal a few times over the years and he always seemed a humble man, he had my respect from the first time.  Ultimate team first individual. 

I agree that you can wait another 10 minutes for Cal or any other player if they're late for a flight. If Wren really wanted to make a point just have Cal pay a small fine for holding up the team. It's not like they were on the tarmac for an hour or more waiting for Cal to show up. 

[Tony-OH]

20 hours ago, wildcard said:

Are you still a Colts fan after they moved to Indy?

No, I was not, but that was a long time ago. The city has changed. I once loved Baltimore. My Grandfather lived in Little Italy and it was basically my second home growing up. 

Now, I only go into that violent, drug invested, dangerous, corrupt city when I absolutely have to. I once would defend Baltimore, but it has come to the point where it can no longer be defended any longer. 

Ever driven through the city lately?  In the last two months I've had to take my father to a downtown hospital and then pick him back up after his surgery (I was not allowed in because only one person could be with him), drove my wife into the city to get some Italian food from a great Italian market and took my oldest son to see WWE at the Royal Farms Arena. Travelling through the city, there were homeless people and squeegee people at almost every intersection. Homeless men were everywhere and you had to walk through groups of young men who were blocking sidewalks or trying to hawk you something. At one point there was a screaming match near the entrance of my parking garage and what sounded like some kind of fight but I was able to get into my vehicle and get out of there before anything we down. It's just not a comfortable experience.

The Roads? Apparently the city forgot that roads should be paved, even, and without pits everywhere. The traffic lights? Can't go a block without hitting one even if there are no cars going the other way because they haven't spent any money trying to synchronize them or put in technology that allows for the lights to know the traffic. 

Now Camden Yards is just off the highway so it's not too bad if you can park in one of the lots on site, but the only game I've gone to in the last two years I ubered up and back because it was just safer and easier. I did go over the Pickles/Sliders after the game but almost no one was there.

When I was younger, I probably would not have cared as much, but at 51 years old, I can't protect myself and my family physically like I used to and Baltimore has made sure to keep good guys from having guns to protect themselves. Even if I did CC, I would not trust that I would get a fair trial if God forbid something happens and I needed to use it to protect myself and or my family. Also, since the former corrupt mayor (no not the previous corrupt mayor, the corrupt mayor before her) once allowed mobs to attack people and destroy property, it doesn't feel like it's a place where you can safely enjoy time with your family.

So If the Orioles move, I would continue to be an Orioles organization fan for sure. My love for Baltimore has long passed and while I will probably always be a fan of Baltimore teams, if for some reason the Orioles did leave, it would not be the end of my fandom for the franchise. 

I've been an Orioles fan all my life so I can't see anything stopping me from continuing to be so.

And I hate to say it, but I've been to Nashville and it's a pretty nice city where I felt safe walking the streets.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Chuck A said:

In all fairness, Cal single-handedly (due to the streak) put butts in seats and captivated the fans, can say brought in new fans, on the heels of a strike that put a bad black eye on baseball.  I think you hold the flight another 10 minutes for him.  I spoke to Cal a few times over the years and he always seemed a humble man, he had my respect from the first time.  Ultimate team first individual. 

I've always thought there was a lot more to that story. I have a hard time thinking anyone would have told the plane to leave if Ripken was 5 to 10 minutes out and was late because of traffic. That doesn't pass the make sense to me even for a run of the mill player, but to do that with an icon makes me think there was a lot more to that story.

[Sports Guy]

44 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

No, I was not, but that was a long time ago. The city has changed. I once loved Baltimore. My Grandfather lived in Little Italy and it was basically my second home growing up. 

Now, I only go into that violent, drug invested, dangerous, corrupt city when I absolutely have to. I once would defend Baltimore, but it has come to the point where it can no be defending any longer. 

Ever driven through the city lately?  In the last two months I've had to take my father to a downtown hospital and then pick him back up after his surgery (I was not allowed in because only one person could be with him), drove my wife into the city to get some Italian food from a great Italian market and took my oldest son to see WWE at the Royal Farms Arena. Travelling through the city, there were homeless people and squeegee people at almost every intersection. Homeless men were everywhere and you had to walk through groups of young men who were blocking sidewalks or trying to hawk you something. At one point there was a screaming match near the entrance of my parking garage and what sounded like some kind of fight but I was able to get into my vehicle and get out of there before anything we down. It's just not a comfortable experience.

The Roads? Apparently the city forgot that roads should be paved, even, and without pits everywhere. The traffic lights? Can't go a block without hitting one even if there are no cars going the other way because they haven't spent any money trying to synchronize them or put in technology that allows for the lights to know the traffic. 

Now Camden Yards is just off the highway so it's not too bad if you can park in one of the lots on site, but the only game I've gone to in the last two years I ubered up and back because it was just safer and easier. I did go over the Pickles/Sliders after the game but almost no one was there.

When I was younger, I probably would not have cared as much, but at 51 years old, I can't protect myself and my family physically like I used to and Baltimore has made sure to keep good guys from having guns to protect themselves. Even if I did CC, I would not trust that I would get a fair trial if God forbid something happens and I needed to use it to protect myself and or my family. Also, since the former corrupt mayor (no not the previous corrupt mayor, the corrupt mayor before her) once allowed mobs to attack people and destroy property, it doesn't feel like it's a place where you can safely enjoy time with your family.

So If the Orioles move, I would continue to be an Orioles organization fan for sure. My love for Baltimore has long passed and while I will probably always be a fan of Baltimore teams, if for some reason the Orioles did leave, it would not be the end of my fandom for the franchise. 

I've been an Orioles fan all my life so I can't see anything stopping me from continuing to be so.

And I hate to say it, but I've been to Nashville and it's a pretty nice city where I felt safe walking the streets.

Don’t worry Tony, Mosby is going to clean everything up!

[Pickles]

58 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I've always thought there was a lot more to that story. I have a hard time thinking anyone would have told the plane to leave if Ripken was 5 to 10 minutes out and was late because of traffic. That doesn't pass the make sense to me even for a run of the mill player, but to do that with an icon makes me think there was a lot more to that story.

Pretty sure Cal was in jail for beating up Kevin Costner.

[DrungoHazewood]

Angelos' legacy is going to be that of running a formerly great franchise into the ground while making a number of key decisions seemingly on the basis or emotion or spite.  The running the team into the ground part may not be entirely fair since he bought an organization that had been in decline since '83.  But he walked into a huge money-making machine in Oriole Park at Camden Yards and ended up turning that into a disaster.  The successes of 2012-2016 were despite a bunch of glaring organizational failings that Angelos' policies were responsible for.  He could have settled with the Nats years ago but instead is fighting to the bitter end, will probably lose anyway, and has negatively impacted two franchises' ability to compete.

And if the O's ever move I'm done.  I will not root for any Nashville Orioles, I can't see myself switching to the Nats, and probably won't watch Major League baseball at all for a very long time.

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

And if the O's ever move I'm done.  I will not root for any Nashville Orioles, I can't see myself switching to the Nats, and probably won't watch Major League baseball at all for a very long time.

I honestly don’t know what I’d do if the O’s moved.   I’ve never lived in Baltimore, but always chose to root for my Maryland team instead of the much closer Washington team.   I’ve driven the 40 miles to Baltimore probably 300-400 times to watch the Orioles play.   

I dropped the Colts instantaneously when they moved, but my commitment to the Orioles runs way deeper.   My guess is I’d still care for as long as some of the players I rooted for were still on the team.    I guess I’d also care whether the MiL teams stayed in the area.   If they moved away I think that would certainly be the last straw.   

But I don’t expect any of that to happen.  

 

 

[Tony-OH]

17 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Don’t worry Tony, Mosby is going to clean everything up!

Hey, I tried very hard to not make any political points.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I guess I’d also care whether the MiL teams stayed in the area.   If they moved away I think that would certainly be the last straw.  

I'd consider that the ultimate insult.  We're going to steal your team and move it 1000 miles away and call it something else, but you can still watch their prospects play for three months for the BaySox on their way to Nashville.  I'd give PG County Stadium the finger every time I drove by.

What would be interesting is if the Atlantic League somehow negotiated a lease and put a team in OPACY.  I'd go watch them.  I supposed they'd have to drop the OP part.

Again, not expecting any of this to happen.