New CBA proposal on draft lottery

[oriolediehard]

Does anyone feel the new proposed CBA draft lottery will hurt the Orioles?  There is no proof teams and players tank.  Players don't care about the draft, they just want to stay in the MLB and not be sent to the minors for poor performance.

6 months ago Scott Boras accused teams are tanking.

Boras is the one who proposed the new draft rules to change.. Boras is one who hurts baseball.

[ShoelesJoe]

Don't like this at all. The only concrete benefit for fans of a bad team is the hope of grabbing high value prospects in the next draft. To think that an organization could have the worst record in baseball and then watch as better teams -- maybe even teams that had winning records -- get higher picks in the next draft is ludicrous. 

[Sports Guy]

25 minutes ago, ShoelesJoe said:

Don't like this at all. The only concrete benefit for fans of a bad team is the hope of grabbing high value prospects in the next draft. To think that an organization could have the worst record in baseball and then watch as better teams -- maybe even teams that had winning records -- get higher picks in the next draft is ludicrous. 

Why?  Other than the idea that “it’s always been this way”, why is that an issue?

Lets face it, the Orioles aren’t trying to win games.  You can use whatever wording you want to use to make yourself feel better about the process but at the end of the day, that’s the end result.  They don’t care about winning.  Those on the field of course do but so what?  Most of them shouldn’t be on a Ml roster or at least shouldn’t be getting real playing time like they do here.

So, if the result is, we want to try and avoid/eliminate that, why is that an issue?  The MLBPA knows that if you encourage this type of behavior that it means less  money for the players.  
 

What I think is the better solution is to implement a salary floor but the owners aren’t going to go for that in all likelihood.  
 

You are always going to have bad teams and there will always be teams that throw in the towel at midseason and offload vets for future pieces.  Nothing wrong with that.  But to continuously lose on purpose is an issue.  I don’t care about doing it for 1 or even 2 seasons…no real reason to do it beyond that…some of these teams are going 4 and 5 years.  That’s ridiculous.  That’s not a strategy.  

[waroriole]

If Elias is doing this the right way, we should hope for a lottery system. By the time it gets implemented we shouldn’t have the worst record every year and maybe we’ll get lucky in the lottery. 

[Just Regular]

25 minutes ago, waroriole said:

If Elias is doing this the right way, we should hope for a lottery system. By the time it gets implemented we shouldn’t have the worst record every year and maybe we’ll get lucky in the lottery. 

See, in 2023 when we're scrounging for the Fifth Wildcard, and its a race to the last week with the other 79-83 teams, but we could be in the lottery if we miss the playoffs, this is the kind of thing that could create mixed feelings.

Because the Peak Adley teams could use 2024 1-1 to go along with 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023's elite picks.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think the mistake is the belief that teams are tanking primarily to get the #1 draft pick.  I think the main reason is to save money.  The 2007 Orioles had about a league-average payroll and were a laughingstock.  The 2021 Orioles had one of the lowest payrolls in the league and were a laughingstock.  If you're going to be a laughingstock, why also pay $75M extra for the privilege?

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think the mistake is the belief that teams are tanking primarily to get the #1 draft pick.  I think the main reason is to save money.  The 2007 Orioles had about a league-average payroll and were a laughingstock.  The 2021 Orioles had one of the lowest payrolls in the league and were a laughingstock.  If you're going to be a laughingstock, why also pay $75M extra for the privilege?

I think teams are taking for a higher pick/higher draft pool and, mainly, to save money.

Its funny when people act as if it’s some righteous strategy and the only way you can contend again.  It’s just completely foolish and the sale jobs being done by these organizations are absolutely brilliant.  I’m just surprised so many smart people fall for it.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

You are always going to have bad teams and there will always be teams that throw in the towel at midseason and offload vets for future pieces.  Nothing wrong with that.  But to continuously lose on purpose is an issue.  I don’t care about doing it for 1 or even 2 seasons…no real reason to do it beyond that…some of these teams are going 4 and 5 years.  That’s ridiculous.  That’s not a strategy.  

Of course it’s a strategy.   You can disagree with it, but it’s definitely a strategy.   

[Moose Milligan]

I think the tanking angle is overrated. 

This isn't the NFL where you can get the best quarterback in the country and change the shape of your franchise with the #1 pick.  This isn't the NBA where you can select someone like LeBron James or Giannis that'll make you a contender.   You can get an Adley Rutschman but that doesn't change the structure of your organization.  That doesn't make you a contender.  The way baseball is set up is inherently different than the other sports.  

In the NFL, even a player picked 27th is going to make the team the first year.  They're going to most likely be a starter.  Picked 27th overall in the MLB draft?  You're lucky to make the majors at all.  

That's not to say the draft isn't invaluable...it is.  But I don't really get the need for a lottery system.  I mean, some team has to be last place, some team has to be the worst in the game.  That doesn't necessarily mean that they're tanking.  I don't really see why you wouldn't want to give the worst team in the game the #1 pick when the #1 pick isn't going to be transformative for the franchise anyway.  Obviously the flip side of that coin is if the #1 pick isn't going to be transformative, does it really matter who gets it?

I'm more inclined to keep the draft the way it is and not have a lottery system because if there's a slight edge to be had at picking at the top (there is, but it's a quick dropoff) the worst team should have it.  

42 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Its funny when people act as if it’s some righteous strategy and the only way you can contend again.  It’s just completely foolish and the sale jobs being done by these organizations are absolutely brilliant. 

I don't know if this really exists.  I don't know if there's anyone saying this is the only way you can contend again, nor do I see "sales jobs" being done by organizations that are brilliant. 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think the tanking angle is overrated. 

This isn't the NFL where you can get the best quarterback in the country and change the shape of your franchise with the #1 pick.  This isn't the NBA where you can select someone like LeBron James or Giannis that'll make you a contender.   You can get an Adley Rutschman but that doesn't change the structure of your organization.  That doesn't make you a contender.  The way baseball is set up is inherently different than the other sports.  

In the NFL, even a player picked 27th is going to make the team the first year.  They're going to most likely be a starter.  Picked 27th overall in the MLB draft?  You're lucky to make the majors at all.  

That's not to say the draft isn't invaluable...it is.  But I don't really get the need for a lottery system.  I mean, some team has to be last place, some team has to be the worst in the game.  That doesn't necessarily mean that they're tanking.  I don't really see why you wouldn't want to give the worst team in the game the #1 pick when the #1 pick isn't going to be transformative for the franchise anyway.  Obviously the flip side of that coin is if the #1 pick isn't going to be transformative, does it really matter who gets it?

I'm more inclined to keep the draft the way it is and not have a lottery system because if there's a slight edge to be had at picking at the top (there is, but it's a quick dropoff) the worst team should have it.  

I don't know if this really exists.  I don't know if there's anyone saying this is the only way you can contend again, nor do I see "sales jobs" being done by organizations that are brilliant. 

Open your eyes then

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Of course it’s a strategy.   You can disagree with it, but it’s definitely a strategy.   

It’s a money grab.  So yes it’s a strategy in a way to save money.

What I was talking about a strategy of winning.  It’s not and if they think it is, they are fools, as is anyone who buys into it.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Open your eyes then

That's helpful.  I mean, if you could show me a team that's selling tanking as the only way to get better, I'd like to see it.  

[OriolesMagic83]

2 hours ago, oriolediehard said:

Does anyone feel the new proposed CBA draft lottery will hurt the Orioles?  There is no proof teams and players tank.  Players don't care about the draft, they just want to stay in the MLB and not be sent to the minors for poor performance.

6 months ago Scott Boras accused teams are tanking.

Boras is the one who proposed the new draft rules to change.. Boras is one who hurts baseball.

The real problem is not taking, its that low revenue/small market teams can not consistently compete with high revenue/large market teams.  Tampa Bay is somehow able to do it year in and year out, but most teams need to tank to reload their farm systems and get rid of large contracts.  I don't care what the business is, having 3X the money to spend is a huge advantage.  If all teams had approximately the same revenue, would teams still be tanking?  I don't think so.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's helpful.  I mean, if you could show me a team that's selling tanking as the only way to get better, I'd like to see it.  

Have you listened to anything Elias has said the last 4 years?  You have your example in your own backyard.  What else do you need to see?

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

The real problem is not taking, its that low revenue/small market teams can not consistently compete with high revenue/large market teams.  

This isn’t true at all.