O's Ink Izturis

[ledzepp8]

Its some agenda against AM...What is really hard to take seriously is someone who has the inability to get involved in an intelligent conversation and instead throw a bunch of bs into it and put words into people's mouths..Of course, that is how you roll and is typical of the way you post, so whatever.

That being said, what Chris is saying is 100% right..Hu is a SS...If they sign a SS to a long term deal, it stands to reason that Hu's availablity is more likely to be there. And because of that, waiting to see what happens with that isn't the worst idea.

Now, as I said, we can still get Hu and maybe we will...Who knows at this point...But what Chris is saying is correct.

Now, how about you actually try to debate stuff and inject what small shred of baseball intelligence you have into the conversation instead of crying about the little stuff.

(god, why did i decide to read your posts when I have you on ignore? that was a really dumb decision on my part)

How am I not involved in the conversation?

How have I put words into people's mouths?

Why is that whenever anyone disagrees with you, you say they aren't talking baseball and you question their intelligence?

What is typical of the way I roll and how I post? You're the only one who has said anything, seems to me that's your problem.

I agreed with Chris about Hu, Furcal, and the Dodgers. I was just pointing out that it was unfair to claim AM didn't seek out long-term SS possibilities when you really have no way of knowing for sure.

Oh and I really fail to see how I'm not debating stuff. If you guys really have that big of a problem when people call you out on stuff, then maybe you should stop talking about stuff you have no idea about in absolutes.

By the way dude, throwing out the fact that you had me on ignore...totally badass!! Can you teach me how to be as awesome as you?

[Lucky Jim]

I suspect every metric available would support my characterization of Izturis' play for the Cubs.

Hey don't get me wrong. I hope he does well for you guys. But like you said, I wouldn't immediately assume there's an upgrade in store -- he could suck for you guys like he did for the Cubs.

I posted the argument for his defensive value in the thread. Read it if you like, don't if you don't. But - and I think you're aware of this - he's spent several years away from the Cubs. As we're asking is that he produce near his record the past two years. May not happen. But it's not like we're praying for rain, or something.

[Lucky Jim]

Well said. While it does likely preclude the O's from getting an expensive veteran (which might be a good thing), it doesn't really affect getting a long-term answer, and it does positively affect bargaining power.

Remember, there's a decent chance that Roberts will be traded, and a lot of good young SS's are moved to 2B in the majors while they get their feet wet - like Azdrubal Cabrera. The O's could do the same with a DeJesus or Hu.

Indeed. Well said.

[bej6789]

Mcphail's mantra the entire time he's been in Baltimore has been to not do something until you basically are forced to. Izturis allows for basically two more years of searching for the right answer. I'm not too sure how this changes the pursuit for a young shortstop to plug in our system. If the opportunity is there, do you honestly think Mcphail will say "No, we've got our guy with Izturis?"

[Fred Manfraud]

Perhaps I'm oversimplifying things, but I don't think the Birds could've done better without having to trade anyone and/or spending a boatload of money. Obviously, it's not a long-term solution. As has been stated, the Izturis move still gives the club flexibility should a long-term answer become available.

[davearm]

But I think there is a good chance that OCab, Furcal and Renteria would suck too(over the life of their respective contracts) and they would have cost a lot more money.

I wouldn't have liked those options for the O's either.

Hey maybe Izturis is the lesser of all evils here. I just imagine you guys will come to view him in much the same way you viewed Jay Payton for the last few years... overpaid, passable as a bench guy, no longterm future with the O's, every game he plays is just treading water. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[davearm]

I posted the argument for his defensive value in the thread. Read it if you like, don't if you don't. But - and I think you're aware of this - he's spent several years away from the Cubs. As we're asking is that he produce near his record the past two years. May not happen. But it's not like we're praying for rain, or something.

Jim that argument is based on an assumption that I'm not willing to make.

Defensively, Izturis has been good, he's been great, and he's also been totally mediocre.

So I'm not going to assume he'll be somewhere between good and great, and compute his value based upon that. And really that's what this comes down to.

If he does end up being great in the field, then living with his noodle bat won't be so frustrating.

[Dipper9]

I wouldn't have liked those options for the O's either.

Hey maybe Izturis is the lesser of all evils here. I just imagine you guys will come to view him in much the same way you viewed Jay Payton for the last few years... overpaid, passable as a bench guy, no longterm future with the O's, every game he plays is just treading water. Hopefully I'm wrong.

He wasn't signed to a 10 year contract to be our shortstop of the future. He was signed as a defensive stopgap so we can focus on more important things, like pitching and Tex.

[Fred Manfraud]

I wouldn't have liked those options for the O's either.

Hey maybe Izturis is the lesser of all evils here. I just imagine you guys will come to view him in much the same way you viewed Jay Payton for the last few years... overpaid, passable as a bench guy, no longterm future with the O's, every game he plays is just treading water. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I don't think any Orioles fans are hoping Izturis has a long-term future with the team, certainly no more long-term than the life of the contract.

[Fred Manfraud]

He wasn't signed to a 10 year contract to be our shortstop of the future. He was signed as a defensive stopgap so we can focus on more important things, like pitching and Tex.

:agree: Thank you. That's what I was trying to say, but you said it more clearly and eloquently.

[PeterWyshner]

Someone is upset that we acquired a young, cheap, good glove, mediocre hitting former All-Star starting SS for the next two years to fill a glaring hole, instead of looking into trading for a 25-year-old mediocre hitting, mediocre fielding "prospect" from the Dodgers with less than 150 ML at bats?

Really?

I mean I understand Hu's potential, but we need a starting SS for 2009. You're going to complain because you think we didn't pursue a guy with limited potential and just 145 ML at bats?

And that's not even factoring in that we would first have to wait for Furcal to sign, then hope he signs with LA, then hope LA is shopping Hu and not asking for too much, then hoping we have compatible wants/needs with the Dodgers, then hoping that Hu's vision problems are over, then hoping that Hu is ready to start in 2009....

I mean, really?

Cha-CHING! Good points.

Look, I don't know much, but I do know this: we need to be stock-piling talent, not trading it away. Hu would take prospects to get, Cesar did not.

AM's right on track by trading away veterans for multiple prospects and finding affordable pieces to fill in gaps. Then, when the timing is right, you're in position to pull the trigger on a few big name FA or do a monster trade to put you over the top (a la Matt Garza esque). I don't know what all the complaining is about -- this was a very good move.

[weams]

Something about playing for the Cubs, brings out the best in a player.

[Sports Guy]

I wouldn't have liked those options for the O's either.

Hey maybe Izturis is the lesser of all evils here. I just imagine you guys will come to view him in much the same way you viewed Jay Payton for the last few years... overpaid, passable as a bench guy, no longterm future with the O's, every game he plays is just treading water. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I tend to agree with you Dave.

Its really all about his defense...If he plays GG defense, then he will be worth his contract...if his defense starts to slip, then he will be Jay Payton in the IF.

[Frobby]

I wouldn't have liked those options for the O's either.

Hey maybe Izturis is the lesser of all evils here. I just imagine you guys will come to view him in much the same way you viewed Jay Payton for the last few years... overpaid, passable as a bench guy, no longterm future with the O's, every game he plays is just treading water. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I'm far more favorably inclined towards the Izturis acquisition than I was towards Payton -- and that was before Payton's OPS dropped by 100 points after becoming an Oriole.

Frankly, though, my tentative opinion on the Izturis deal won't be crystalized until I've watched him play for a month or two. If I see Bordick-worthy defense, I'll call it a success. If all I see is slightly better than league average defense, or worse, then I'll probably be unhappy.

[Sports Guy]

Cha-CHING! Good points.

Look, I don't know much, but I do know this: we need to be stock-piling talent, not trading it away. Hu would take prospects to get, Cesar did not.

AM's right on track by trading away veterans for multiple prospects and finding affordable pieces to fill in gaps. Then, when the timing is right, you're in position to pull the trigger on a few big name FA or do a monster trade to put you over the top (a la Matt Garza esque). I don't know what all the complaining is about -- this was a very good move.

Not very likely...The Dodgers will most likely be looking for someone to help them in the majors now...it would be guys like Sherrill and BRob that would interest them...Hu in a package for them.