O's Ink Izturis

[Enjoy Terror]

I'm not saying we shouldn't be or aren't on the lookout for a better solution; say someone with some power and a sure glove at the same time. But I don't think that Izturis is cause for this much whining about how the Orioles are laying down on the shortstop issue. He's a stop gap. It's temporary because someone HAS to go out there and take ground balls up the middle. The market for SS's is very thin, the only real way to go about getting a good one these days is to overpay or draft one.

[Lucky Jim]

Fine, but don't get all crazy with the Belanger comps. Belanger was one of the best defensive shortstops who ever lived and he still had years where he was below average overall.

You can live with a really good field, no-hit shortstop. But let's not resurrect the loopy Luis Hernandez era proclamations that such a player is preferable to a more well-rounded solution. And let's not give our backing to the Tampa writers who anointed Bartlett the Rays' MVP.

This is probably a better version of our LH thought experiment from last offseason. But he's no Belanger, to be sure.

Still, I love the attempt to exploit the market's undervaluation of defense. Even if it doesn't pan out, it's a smart approach.

[DrungoHazewood]

This is probably a better version of our LH thought experiment from last offseason. But he's no Belanger, to be sure.

Still, I love the attempt to exploit the market's undervaluation of defense. Even if it doesn't pan out, it's a smart approach.

Oh, absolutely. But it only works when you're smart enough to identify a really good defender. The market doesn't undervalue Luis Hernandez.

I'm fairly confident Izturis is at least above-average, maybe significantly. And that more than justifies his pricetag.

[davearm]

Done - if you allow the O's 1st round pick - if it's a college SS that is projected to stay at SS.

Stakes - You change your tagline for a month to Exposed O's Hater.

What's in it for me?

I don't care what your "tagline" (whatever that is) says.

[Rex Thunder]

If it's for one year, then I guess you call it making the best of a bad situation.

For two years, ugh.

As usual... nothing is ever a good move. Come on. This team needed a shortstop, it got one! Two years is an issue? Do you really think that will stop them from looking to other options if someone becomes available? I doubt it.

It gets so old to see such disdain at moves that are productive to this team. You have to start with baby steps before you can run.

If you are crying about this- I doubt I could have standed listening to your crying after the signings of Baez, Bradford, walker.... hell- just about any of this team's signings in the few years prior to MacPahil coming on board.

[Lester Freamon]

Oh, absolutely. But it only works when you're smart enough to identify a really good defender. The market doesn't undervalue Luis Hernandez.

I'm fairly confident Izturis is at least above-average, maybe significantly. And that more than justifies his pricetag.

Just curious for your opinion. If Izturis does indeed play SS at an above-average level, and if (and it probably is a big IF) we add Pie as our everyday LFer, with that outfield defense and strong up the middle D with Weiters, Izturis, Roberts, Jones/Pie, couldn't the O's be significantly better next year considering how much this could help our pitching? Again assuming we add Marquis and the Japanesse pitchers whose name starts with a U (really sorry can't remember his name at the moment and this thread will probably be buried if I go back to find it) to go with Guthrie?

[DrungoHazewood]

Just curious for your opinion. If Izturis does indeed play SS at an above-average level, and if (and it probably is a big IF) we add Pie as our everyday LFer, with that outfield defense and strong up the middle D with Weiters, Izturis, Roberts, Jones/Pie, couldn't the O's be significantly better next year considering how much this could help our pitching? Again assuming we add Marquis and the Japanesse pitchers whose name starts with a U (really sorry can't remember his name at the moment and this thread will probably be buried if I go back to find it) to go with Guthrie?

Sure, improved defense is possible, and that'll show up in the runs allowed column. After April the O's were a pretty lousy defensive team, and that was mostly the infield. Right now the O's are really good at CF, RF, SS. Average to a little above at 2B, probably C, and LF (depending on the mix of players there). Mora is probably a little below average, and Huff is somewhere between below average and crapulent.

If the O's somehow add Teixeira that's probably 15 or 20 runs better than Huff just with the glove. Pie is probably better than Scott, but I wouldn't expect anything dramatic.

But SS is the key. Izturis, if he plays as well as he did last year, could be 30 or more runs better than the Fahey/Cintron crowd.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Hmmm. Well, I don't know about YOUR financial planning, but in times of fiscal uncertainty, I've got no problem going with a low-risk, low-yield investment while I survey the market for other options. You keep playing your scratch-wins, Stoner. I'm sure that $55,000 jackpot will hit!

More like putting your money in the mattress (Izturis) vs. putting a tiny bit of cash into high-risk/high-reward stocks. Neither is going to cost you much, but only one has a chance of making money.

[davearm]

As usual... nothing is ever a good move. Come on. This team needed a shortstop, it got one! Two years is an issue? Do you really think that will stop them from looking to other options if someone becomes available? I doubt it.

It gets so old to see such disdain at moves that are productive to this team. You have to start with baby steps before you can run.

If you are crying about this- I doubt I could have standed listening to your crying after the signings of Baez, Bradford, walker.... hell- just about any of this team's signings in the few years prior to MacPahil coming on board.

Try "User CP" "Settings and Options" "Edit Ignore List."

I hate knowing I ruin your day by expressing an opinion.

[Lester Freamon]

Sure, improved defense is possible, and that'll show up in the runs allowed column. After April the O's were a pretty lousy defensive team, and that was mostly the infield. Right now the O's are really good at CF, RF, SS. Average to a little above at 2B, probably C, and LF (depending on the mix of players there). Mora is probably a little below average, and Huff is somewhere between below average and crapulent.

If the O's somehow add Teixeira that's probably 15 or 20 runs better than Huff just with the glove. Pie is probably better than Scott, but I wouldn't expect anything dramatic.

But SS is the key. Izturis, if he plays as well as he did last year, could be 30 or more runs better than the Fahey/Cintron crowd.

Very cool. Thanks for the reply. I know the money is pretty crazy, but my crazy inner fan is shouting all other instincts down at the moment - so, if we can somehow pull out this Tex thing, I'll be pretty excited.

[DNoz29]

Congrats on the signing. Izturis isn't a good hitter by any means, and he's much better from the right side than the left. However, he is a defensive whiz, which is the most important thing for a SS.

I know I wanted the Dodgers to bring him back (if they weren't going to re-sign Furcal) to platoon with Hu.

Here's hoping he does well!

[emmett16]

The thing that impresses me is his low SO rate. Granted he doens't walk all that much, but at least he can put the bat on the ball.

[davearm]

If you're going to ignore the argument for Izturis's value - and fail to offer any evidence that he adds none - then why pretend to have this discussion?

You think you're right. I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Regardless, I've offered coherent explantions for why I think this is a good deal. I haven't seen you offer a single, empirically-backed, and/or market-reflective reason why you think it's not.

Long-term/short-term is pretty simplistic. I mean, this isn't the Hangout circa 2002, after all. We've all become more sophisticated. You should join us.

What odds would you put on Izturis playing SS on the O's next contender?

If you answer that question honestly then you'd understand why BT's analogy about how to make money fits perfectly.

[Lucky Jim]

What odds would you put on Izturis playing SS on the O's next contender?

If you answer that question honestly then you'd understand why BT's analogy about how to make money fits perfectly.

I deleted my post because I didn't like the tone of it. Sorry.

Still, BT's analogy only works in the most simplistic framework. There all sorts of costs attendant with ignoring the short-term as if the long-term (pennant) is all that's important.

If AM is taking a satisficing approach to this year - and relying on finding things that are good enough, to free up resources in order to find better long-term solutions, great.

Only a simple maximizer would see things your way - but simple maximzing is often pretty inefficient.

[Baltimoron]

More like putting your money in the mattress (Izturis) vs. putting a tiny bit of cash into high-risk/high-reward stocks. Neither is going to cost you much, but only one has a chance of making money.

The analogy may be too warped by now, but I'm pretty sure we can agree that the smart investor isn't playing the high risk equities game without first making sure he has an adequate store of cash on hand (most say 6 months of expenses).